Databases suggest that most of the time Black castles quickly, and 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 is the only line given in Fritz 10's openings book.  Maybe it's just an automatic reaction by analogy with the Studier Attack, when Black has no good alternative to quick castling, but a few of us agreed a couple of pages ago that Black can consider alternatives in the "Long Bogo".

I gave the sample line 6...c6 7.Qd2 Bg7 8.0-0-0 Bf5 9.Bh6 Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nbd7 11.Bc4 e6 12.h3 Qe7 13.g4 Be4 14.Rhf1 0-0-0, with a similar kind of situation to  Lev Gutman's recommendation against the early ...c6 lines.  Black still has the extra pawn but White has a lot of pressure down the f-file and Black has weaknesses on the kingside.

The idea of deferring ...Bg7 even longer is pretty interesting as well.  After 7...Nbd7 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5, I would personally be happy to take White after 11.0-0 (I think castling kingside makes more sense here) and aiming for long-term chances down the e and f-files.  White can also try 8.0-0-0, e.g. 8...Nb6 9.Bd3 Be6 10.Rhe1 with ideas of Bxf6 and Ne5, and if 10...Bg7 then 11.Bh6.  I don't think these lines are objectively any better for Black than automatic castling (all of these resulting positions seem about equal), but they reduce the risk of being mated quickly.

Reading over the suggested lines (and checking them with Fritz) it seems that White can practically force compensation-for-a-pawn lines with 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2, 4...exd4 5.Bb5+ and 4...Nc6 5.Bb5 (in both cases with a quick Qe2 to follow).  

After both 4...exd4 and 4...Nc6, 5.Nf3 is also reasonable for White but has the drawback of making it hard to avoid simplifcations on d4 after 4...exd4 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.c3 Bf5 and 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qd5.

Well, after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5 there is another option open: the Rasmussen Attack, 4 Nge2.
But, if you want to keep play sharp and complicated, 4 Nxe4 is the way to go.

Sorry, my comment was not clear about 1.d4 Nf6.
I meant after 1.d4 d5 the book would recommend 2.e4 instead of 2.Nc3, avoiding the line 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 Nxe4! 
As far as 4.Nxe4 dxe4 5.Be3 goes as suggested, Black can hold on to the pawn with 5...Bf5 and that seems good for Black given by Dembo. 
That's kind of why i thought the Blackmar Diemer Gambit wasn't really played against 1...Nf6, unless you started with like, 2.f3!?

Anyway, i was more interested in how Scheerer simply responds to:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?
At least in my preliminary analysis, The mainline of the Blackmar Diemer that starts after 5.Nxf3 would be much harder to 'refute', people have stated problems with Scheerer's analysis on this forum and rightly so, but since 3...e5 would be my move against the BDG, I investigated them only for academic interest. Yes i hate that term 'refute' as well, but i was just wondering what Scheerer recommends against this.

Actually, 5.Bf4 e6 6.f3 e3 isn't an unreasonable idea for Black as White has to waste a tempo with Bc1-f4xe3 (though 6...Bd6! is much stronger in that line).   Conversely after 5.Be3 e6, 6.f3 is indeed probably best.

The critical tests of 5.Be3 are 5...Bf5 (when 6.g4, or perhaps 6.Bc4 and 7.g4, is the best approach) and 5...Nc6.  Against 5...Nc6 Scheerer offers 6.d5 Nb4 7.c4 e6 8.a3 Nd3+ 9.Bxd3 cxd3 10.Qxd3, which is fine for White, though I think 7...e5 8.a3 Na6 is far more critical and may well be a bit better for Black.  Instead perhaps 5...Nc6 6.Ne2 with the idea 7.Ng3 (reminiscent of the Zilbermints Gambit in the Englund) is worth considering, as 6...Bf5 7.Ng3 Bg6, attempting to transpose to favourable 5...Bf5 6.Ng3 lines, doesn't work for Black after 8.d5!.

My copy should reach my mail box on Monday morning. 

Thanks to all the people who have posted on the BDG on this site.

My opinion is that "The slower the time control the sounder Gambits must be". Based on this rule of thumb then BDG should be unleashed in blitz and allegro and against selected opponents at tournament speed. Nevertheless it  gets reasonable results in ICCF fixed openings tournaments.

One further point is to unleash it in late rounds in weekenders. It is much harder to defend when you are tired then it is to attack.

Next weekend is a big Australian weekender with players ranging from GM's to novices. Maybe I will mix up BDGs and Veresovs from "A ferocious Opening repertoire" by Lakdawala. Incidentally the Lakdawala book should be useful to any player of the BDG as it gives interesting lines against all sorts of attempts by black to dodge the BDG. Some I have played for yonks for example "The Albin-Chatard attack which scores really well on my 6,000,00 game database. I misses a couple of places where white can transpose back to the BDG but the this may not be respectable enough for Lakdawala.

Arcticmonkey wrote on 02/28/11 at 16:18:28:


What, 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4??

motörhead wrote on 03/02/11 at 21:59:09:


I'd say you're basically correct in all of this but I still think these omissions or errors are relatively minor.  As for the variation, I'm fairly confident it's dynamically equal but I'm not sure this is the best White has either so it may all be irrelevant.