Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A Positional Repertoire (Read 6754 times)
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 650
Joined: 05/13/08
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #12 - 05/16/09 at 09:18:33
Post Tools
Zatox wrote on 05/16/09 at 09:09:59:
4.Qc2 is a very nice try against the nimzo. In many variations you get a slight endgame advantage in a position where you can press a bit.



I played Qc2 for while but I found the positions too sterile if black goes down the mainline. Also black can have some fun with the Ne4 lines a la Adams.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatox
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 175
Joined: 03/11/08
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #11 - 05/16/09 at 09:09:59
Post Tools
4.Qc2 is a very nice try against the nimzo. In many variations you get a slight endgame advantage in a position where you can press a bit.
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scott
Junior Member
**
Offline


Why did I just move that?!

Posts: 62
Location: Mississippi
Joined: 03/17/09
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #10 - 05/16/09 at 05:27:06
Post Tools
I was pretty surprised by 7 Bf4, myself. I was expecting d5 there. I did strongly consider d6 for my 7th move. I chose Nh5 because I figured it would force White to spend a move with Bd2. I was obviously very pleased with the choice of Nc3. That gave me far more than I thought I could gain.

Thanks for the input. I knew I probably hadn't played it perfectly, but I was a bit encouraged by what you had to say.
  

My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #9 - 05/16/09 at 05:16:42
Post Tools
Scott wrote on 05/16/09 at 05:00:21:
I got a chance to try out one of those suggestions tonight... with success! I played a game against a Chessmaster opponent rated 2076 who opened with Nf3

Here's the game:
1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 e6 Bg2 b6 4 d4 Bb7 5 0-0 Be7 6 c4 0-0 7 Bf4 Nh5 8 Nc3 Nxf4 9 gxf4 d5 10 Ne5 c6 11 cxd5 cxd5 12 f5 Nc6 13 Nxc6 Bxc6 14 fxe6 fxe6 15 e3 Bd6 16 f4 Qh4 17 Rf3 Rac8 18 Rc1 Qh5 19 Qd3 Rf5 20 Nb5 Bf8 21 Na7 Bb5 22 Qd2 Rxc1 23 Qxc1 Bc4 24 Nc6 Bxa2 25 Ne5 Rf6 26 Qc8 Bb1 27 Nd7 Rf5 28 Nxf8 Rxf8 29 Qxe6+ Qf7 30 Qxf7+ Rxf7 31 Rf1 Be4 32 Rc1 Ra7 33 Bf1 Ra2 34 b4 Ra3 35 Rc6 Rxe3 36 Rxb6 Kf7 37 b5 Re1 38 Kf2 Rd1 39 Rc6 Rxd4 40 b6 Rb4 41 Be2 d4 42 Rc4 Rxb6 43 Rxd4 Bf5 44 Ra4 Kg6 45 Ra5 h6 46 Rb5 Rxb5 47 Bxb5 Kf6 48 h4 g6 49 Be2 g5 50 hxg5+ hxg5 51 fxg5+ Kxg5 1/2-1/2

That game demonstrates one of the most aggrivating features of Chessmaster: it refused 4 draw offers in clearly drawn positions, so I had to play it all the way to insufficient material.

Anyway, I set out to try to get into a Queen's Indian, and succeeded. Obviously, I'm happy about that. The game summary by the program said I gave up a winning position to end up with a draw, but honestly, I felt like I was under a bit of pressure (and a bit of trouble for a while) for most of the endgame. I'm okay with that (else, I wouldn't play the C-K), but I'm curious what the program was referring to.

Any comments on the game or the opening? Anything I need to learn from here?


I will comment that you should be aware of the English Queen's Indian where white refrains from playing d4. Theory, last I checked, was +=, with black's closest to equality coming in the ...Ne4 variations, but still not quite getting it (the Hedgehog being considerably closer to =, still).

7. Bf4 from Chessmaster is not an impressive line (Nc3, d5, Re1 are all better options)

7...Nh5 probably isn't best, both 7...d6 and 7...d5 should bring black equal play. The problem, of course, being that white's bishop isn't ideally placed on f4 unless the exchange cxd5 has to follow with exd5. 7...d5 is especially effective because after cxd5 black has the ideal Nxd5, plus threatening "winning" the bishop pair, and obtaining the better pawn structure as a result of the premature placement of white's bishop. The f2/e3/f4 pawn structure is only good for white when black's light squared bishop is locked in (ie: some Closed Catalans, Semi-Slav sidelines).

Since CM allowed Nxf4 with the change in pawn structure being in black's favor due to already having solved the problem of his light squared bishop, and your central response ...d5 coming soon after, you played okay in the early phase. In the future I'd avoid early ...Nh5 in QIDs.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Scott
Junior Member
**
Offline


Why did I just move that?!

Posts: 62
Location: Mississippi
Joined: 03/17/09
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #8 - 05/16/09 at 05:00:21
Post Tools
I got a chance to try out one of those suggestions tonight... with success! I played a game against a Chessmaster opponent rated 2076 who opened with Nf3

Here's the game:
1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 e6 Bg2 b6 4 d4 Bb7 5 0-0 Be7 6 c4 0-0 7 Bf4 Nh5 8 Nc3 Nxf4 9 gxf4 d5 10 Ne5 c6 11 cxd5 cxd5 12 f5 Nc6 13 Nxc6 Bxc6 14 fxe6 fxe6 15 e3 Bd6 16 f4 Qh4 17 Rf3 Rac8 18 Rc1 Qh5 19 Qd3 Rf5 20 Nb5 Bf8 21 Na7 Bb5 22 Qd2 Rxc1 23 Qxc1 Bc4 24 Nc6 Bxa2 25 Ne5 Rf6 26 Qc8 Bb1 27 Nd7 Rf5 28 Nxf8 Rxf8 29 Qxe6+ Qf7 30 Qxf7+ Rxf7 31 Rf1 Be4 32 Rc1 Ra7 33 Bf1 Ra2 34 b4 Ra3 35 Rc6 Rxe3 36 Rxb6 Kf7 37 b5 Re1 38 Kf2 Rd1 39 Rc6 Rxd4 40 b6 Rb4 41 Be2 d4 42 Rc4 Rxb6 43 Rxd4 Bf5 44 Ra4 Kg6 45 Ra5 h6 46 Rb5 Rxb5 47 Bxb5 Kf6 48 h4 g6 49 Be2 g5 50 hxg5+ hxg5 51 fxg5+ Kxg5 1/2-1/2

That game demonstrates one of the most aggrivating features of Chessmaster: it refused 4 draw offers in clearly drawn positions, so I had to play it all the way to insufficient material.

Anyway, I set out to try to get into a Queen's Indian, and succeeded. Obviously, I'm happy about that. The game summary by the program said I gave up a winning position to end up with a draw, but honestly, I felt like I was under a bit of pressure (and a bit of trouble for a while) for most of the endgame. I'm okay with that (else, I wouldn't play the C-K), but I'm curious what the program was referring to.

Any comments on the game or the opening? Anything I need to learn from here?
  

My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #7 - 05/15/09 at 23:55:01
Post Tools
Scott wrote on 05/15/09 at 23:42:23:
[quote author=BPaulsen link=1242322828/0#5 date=1242424035
The ScottM2 structures are the most nuanced when arriving via 1.c4/1.Nf3, and require the most expertise.


Could you elaborate on that a little bit? In which ways is that so, and what do I need to be careful of? [/quote]
 
This is tough, move orders are very specific. I won't cover them all (way too many, I spent many, many hours over many years working out the fine details on all these variations), but I'll give a brief idea.

ie: Black has to decide between Hedgehog, and QIE.

(for example, sooooo many transpositions are possible, each requiring their own knowledge, so we'll go with one move order)

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 b6 3. g3 Bb7 4. Bg2 e6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Nc3 

Black is already confronted with two distinct options that actually produce dramatically different demands, and confusing the two results in huge edges for white. Black needs to decide on 6...c5 (Hedgehog), or 6...0-0 (QIE).

The 7. Re1 Hedgehog isn't as dangerous as the 7. Re1 QIE. However, if one is a Hedgehog player then 7. d4 cxd4 8. Qxd4 is a huge mass of intertangled variations with super-specific move orders (one misstep by black will land him straight in a lost middlegame from about move 9-12) dictated by what white does. Hedgehog players must also be able to play the lines of the classical ...Bb7 QID, and be ready to transpose at any point.

The 7. Re1 QIE is more dangerous because black doesn't want to be 0-0 early in Hedgehog lines, so it rules out effective ...c5 systems, necessitating an early ...Ne4 (more effective if not 0-0, particularly against effective against the equivalent of 7. Re1 Hedgehog), or ...d5.

There's also move order issues arising from 1.c4 Nf6 2. Nc3, and now black has to deal with options like 2...b6 3. e4! Alternatively 2...e6 3.e4! suddenly forces you out of comfort zone if you play the black side of NID and QID variations. White even has 3. Nf3, and if you're not a NID/QGD player, then suddenly you're in no-man's land transposition-wise. It's the reason I respond to 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 with e5! and 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nf3 (or interchange white's first two moves) with e6!

1. Nf3/ 2. c4 isn't dangerous because it objectively grants white large advantages. It's dangerous because white is in comfortable territory and gets to dictate exactly where the lines end up (different options often producing dramatically different positions), which can be bad for opponents not thoroughly prepared. About the only way to bail out and get to a relatively safe position with no effort is to play the KID, which isn't to everyone's tastes.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Scott
Junior Member
**
Offline


Why did I just move that?!

Posts: 62
Location: Mississippi
Joined: 03/17/09
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #6 - 05/15/09 at 23:42:23
Post Tools
[quote author=BPaulsen link=1242322828/0#5 date=1242424035
The QID structures are the most nuanced when arriving via 1.c4/1.Nf3, and require the most expertise. [/quote]

Could you elaborate on that a little bit? In which ways is that so, and what do I need to be careful of?
  

My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #5 - 05/15/09 at 21:47:15
Post Tools
Scott wrote on 05/15/09 at 02:43:18:
BPaulsen wrote on 05/14/09 at 22:49:49:

The Bogo-Indian is worse than the Nimzo-Indian by the way, I have no idea why you'd rather play the former when the latter is definitely better in practice.


I was talking about playing as White. I prefer playing against the Queen's Indian or Bogo Indian. I don't play the Nimzo or the Bogo as Black.

Thanks for the suggestions against Nf3. I like the idea of being able to play my regular d-pawn defenses against it.  Smiley


My bad on the BID/NID thing.

Keep in mind that there are very distinct Anti-Slav systems that need to be known (ie: Gurevich's 4. Qc2!? that is all the rage among English players at the moment). Example: 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 c6 3. e3 Nf6 4. Qc2!? This can also crop up via 1. c4, and if black isn't prepared for that system he can easily end up with a substantial disadvantage out of the opening, which isn't something Slav players are accustomed to.

On the upside, that is the only Anti-Slav that has any venom to it, from what I can tell...

There's not something special that can be played against 1...Nf6/2...e6/3...d5 that needs to be taken into account. It'll either be a Reti, a Neo-Catalan, Catalan, some impotent English (involving early cxd5 and a kingside fianchetto). If a person is used to defending the black side of these, they won't be caught by surprise via transposition, and therefore it is simpler to play.

The QID structures are the most nuanced when arriving via 1.c4/1.Nf3, and require the most expertise.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Scott
Junior Member
**
Offline


Why did I just move that?!

Posts: 62
Location: Mississippi
Joined: 03/17/09
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #4 - 05/15/09 at 02:43:18
Post Tools
BPaulsen wrote on 05/14/09 at 22:49:49:

The Bogo-Indian is worse than the Nimzo-Indian by the way, I have no idea why you'd rather play the former when the latter is definitely better in practice.


I was talking about playing as White. I prefer playing against the Queen's Indian or Bogo Indian. I don't play the Nimzo or the Bogo as Black.

Thanks for the suggestions against Nf3. I like the idea of being able to play my regular d-pawn defenses against it.  Smiley
  

My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #3 - 05/14/09 at 22:49:49
Post Tools
I'll just chime in on 1.Nf3

You're best off with Slav, QID, or QGD structures against it. Anything else will land you in an obnoxious land of transpositions where white will be in what he knows, and you won't, usually with white getting a += as a result. This is the reason the 1.Nf3 2.c4 repetoire is so popular...

Slav - will result in Reti, main line Slavs, or English anti-Slav systems.

QID - will result in main line QID, Nimzo-English, or Hedgehogs.

QGD - will result in Reti, QGD, or Catalan.

The Bogo-Indian is worse than the Nimzo-Indian by the way, I have no idea why you'd rather play the former when the latter is definitely better in practice.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
slates
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 507
Location: England
Joined: 01/27/05
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #2 - 05/14/09 at 18:32:23
Post Tools
I think the Caro/Slav pairing sounds good for you for now; I play it myself, having realised after many years of ignorance that the Taimanov and Kan Sicilians I was playing weren't actually very well suited to my abilities. 

You'll probably be aware of the oft-repeated advice that the Open Games are very beneficial to one's chess development (unfortunately I never heard this advice when I started playing chess, to my detriment) and so the Petroff might be worth experimenting with some more if you've got bored of Caro Kanns, something that seems to happen sometimes....  Wink

I play the Petroff occasionally as it doesn't seem as demanding as the Ruy Lopez and early deviations mean you don't always get it anyway so you can spend more time on things like the Kings Gambit, the study of which must only be good for your development after all those semi open games.   

Other than getting that 1...e5 experience under your belt I defer to more experienced and stronger players who post here when it comes to advising on a repertoire, although I would add that I have always opened 1.c4 and I think that's what has made me more 'positional' than I perhaps ought to be, were my chess ability more rounded.  However, that has also encouraged me to answer 1.c4 with 1...c5, whilst 1.Nf3 can be a real headache if you don't really work something out against it.  When I used to play the Dutch I would just go 1...f5 (although that wasn't always without it's problems) but as a Slav player now I tend to go 1...d5.   If you chose to play both the Symmetrical English and the Sicilian you could answer 1.Nf3 with 1...c5 confidently enough, but you are talking about boatloads of theory and a drastic repertoire change if you go looking into the Sicilian at all.....and I don't think it's the 'positional' repertoire choice you seem interested in.  Queens Indian and Nimzo/QGD might be good, but again quite demanding (don't forget the Catalan) - if you are fairly happy with the CK and Slav it may be better to concentrate more on tactics and endgames until you really get bored of your openings. 

Hope this may help.  By the way, Steve Giddins wrote a useful little book entitled 'How to Build Your Chess Opening Repertoire' which you might enjoy; other similarly good books with sections on this topic that I'd recommend would be Yermolinsky's 'Road to Chess Improvement' and John Nunn's 'Secrets of Practical Chess', whilst more recently Lars Bo Hansen wrote a great book called 'How Chess Games are Won and Lost' which also discussed choosing your openings in depth. 

   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
smrex13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 112
Location: Ashland
Joined: 06/03/06
Gender: Male
Re: A Positional Repertoire
Reply #1 - 05/14/09 at 18:16:25
Post Tools
I'll toss in my 2 cents...

1.  The first thing that jumps out at me is that the possibility of playing the QID vs. Nf3 and the QGD vs. Nc3 just seems like a lot of extra work.  White can always play Nf3 after Nc3 in the QGD and you will have to know all the main lines of the QGD anyway.  Why add the QID on top of that?  I would say stick with the Slav if you are happy with it.

2.  The Kan, Petroff, Caro, Scandi decision:  I'd say avoid the Scandinavian as your main choice as you get many Caro-like structures anyway.  If you like them, I'd suggest playing the Caro - it offers richer possibilities.  If you are interested in the Petroff, you could use it as a springboard to playing the open games (albeit in a positional manner).  If you like positional chess (heck, even if you don't), the closed Lopez is a wonderful chess education.  Obviously, there are some open games that are tactical, but they are often risky for white.   

I used to play the French and Caro a lot, and I still like them.  But I finally took the plunge and starting playing 1...e5.  It was very frustrating at first (sometimes it still is), but my chess skills have improved much more that they ever did playing the French or Caro.

Anyway, those are just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

Good luck,
Scott (not the original poster)
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scott
Junior Member
**
Offline


Why did I just move that?!

Posts: 62
Location: Mississippi
Joined: 03/17/09
Gender: Male
A Positional Repertoire
05/14/09 at 17:40:28
Post Tools
I've been trying to build a good opening repertoire recently, as I feel like I'm getting to the point in my chess development where it's needed. I prefer to play positionally more than tactically. Here's what I play/am thinking about playing:

As white I generally play 1 d4. After 1... Nf6 2 c4 e6, I play 3 Nf3. I'd rather play against a Queen's/Bogo Indian or a QGD than a Nimzo.

As black, my primary response to 1 e4 is the Caro-Kann, though I've been strongly considering complimenting it with the Petroff. I'm also curious about the Scandinavian and even the Sicilian Kan, so I'd appreciate any suggestions regarding them.

Against 1 d4, I usually play d5 and try to go into a Slav. I've been considering adding the Queen's Indian to my repertoire, as well. I do occasionally play the QGD, so I'm fine with playing that after 3 Nc3.

I usually just play c6 against the English since I play the Caro=Kann and Slav anyway. I haven't looked too much into other English lines yet, although I am curious. So, I'd definitely like some suggestions there.

I'm having a tougher time making up my mind after the Reti. I usually play Nf6, put I'm very open for suggestions there. Nothing's set in stone, as far as I'm concerned against 1 Nf3.

Anyway, that's where I'm at right now. Any advice, additional suggestions or even recommended changes are appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
  

My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo