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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Nc3 or Nf3 (Read 28500 times)
thibdb13
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #11 - 05/25/09 at 08:13:14
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I am also preparing my transition from Nf3 to Nc3. Just to have something new OTB.
My experience is that Nf3 must/should be combined with g3 to get an advantage out of the opening. That means that you must be ready to play the Catalan and have something for the QID and the Bogo. With Nf3/g3 you also have an "easier" setup against the Dutch and the fianchetto variation of the Benoni is quite good for white.
Nc3 is for in entire new world but I find it quite interesting and, after all, you have to try everything before you really can choose...
Against the Nimzo, I like Qc2 and against the QGD, I will go for the exchange variation with Bg5. The last seems to give white a long lasting small edge and so small errors are not dramatic for white.
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Scott
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #10 - 05/25/09 at 01:23:22
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4. Qc2 has been mentioned quite a few times here. I think I'll go ahead and look at that line.
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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MNb
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #9 - 05/25/09 at 01:19:44
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TN wrote on 05/24/09 at 22:15:44:
In my view, 3.Nc3 certainly carries a smaller workload than 3.Nf3, since you only have to prepare for the Nimzo (compared to the ThePresetsof21000, Benoni and Bogo).

After 3.Nc3 White has to be prepared for the Benoni as well.

TN wrote on 05/24/09 at 22:15:44:
If you aren't comfortable facing the Nimzo, consider 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3 which at least retains some similarity to 3.Nf3 and may even transpose after some of Black's most popular moves, namely 4...d5 (Ragozin) and 4...b6 (which often arises via. a ThePresetsof21001).

Perhaps the most important move after 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3 is c5. If Scott likes 5.g3 it is a good choice. Maybe Scott should just bite the bullit and chose 4.Qc2, which has been most popular among GM for the last 20 years or so.
  
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Scott
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #8 - 05/25/09 at 01:02:51
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I think I'll check out the Nimzo a little more. I have Chris Ward's book on the Nimzo, so, I'll probably work through it.

I'm not really a gambiteer. About the only "gambit" I play is the Queen's Gambit. Not too long ago, I probably would have done that, though. Until just a few months ago, my opening of choice as Black against 1. e4 was the Sicilian Dragon. I had to learn that style didn't fit me so well. Now I play the Caro-Kann. Go figure...
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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TN
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #7 - 05/24/09 at 22:15:44
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When deciding between 3.Nf3 and 3.Nc3, it is worthwhile considering what you play against other openings. If you play an early Nf3 against the QGD and Benoni, then 3.Nf3 is the logical choice. But if you refrain from an early Nf3 against the QGD/Benoni, then 3.Nc3 may be more suitable. 

In my view, 3.Nc3 certainly carries a smaller workload than 3.Nf3, since you only have to prepare for the Nimzo (compared to the QID, Benoni and Bogo). If you aren't comfortable facing the Nimzo, consider 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3 which at least retains some similarity to 3.Nf3 and may even transpose after some of Black's most popular moves, namely 4...d5 (Ragozin) and 4...b6 (which often arises via. a QID). It also provides you with some flexibility against the Bogo with 4.Nc3 as well as 4.Bd2/Nbd2. 

If you decide to stick to Nf3, then I would be tempted play some of the fashionable gambit lines against the QID as they are not very difficult to learn (you have to know the theory fairly well, but that is part of chess), but present your opponents with a lot of problems over the board, even if they recall the theoretically strongest variations. This especially applies to the d5 pawn sacrifices (5.Qc2 and the Polugaevsky Gambit).
  
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Scott
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #6 - 05/24/09 at 20:50:11
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That's what I'm not sure of... I may just have to experiment a bit and see. A bit of trial and error, so to speak. Sad
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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BPaulsen
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #5 - 05/24/09 at 18:15:17
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Scott wrote on 05/24/09 at 13:44:33:
Is it basically a question of facing or avoiding the pin in the Nimzo? That's one of the main reasons I've avoided Nc3 in the past. I just wanted to see if that was warranted.

I'm getting the impressin that unless I find a Nimzo line I really like as white, I'm better off sticking with Nc3. Am I reading that right?


If you can stomach the NID, then that would be the way to go. It'll make your life easier preparation-wise.
  
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Scott
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #4 - 05/24/09 at 13:44:33
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Is it basically a question of facing or avoiding the pin in the Nimzo? That's one of the main reasons I've avoided Nc3 in the past. I just wanted to see if that was warranted.

I'm getting the impressin that unless I find a Nimzo line I really like as white, I'm better off sticking with Nc3. Am I reading that right?
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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MNb
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #3 - 05/24/09 at 11:07:04
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Kasparov in the early 80's only played 3.Nc3 when was sure not to meet ...Bb4.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #2 - 05/24/09 at 10:25:47
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Does anyone know why all the top players choose 3.Nf3 ?
  
'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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BPaulsen
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3
Reply #1 - 05/24/09 at 07:50:35
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Scott wrote on 05/24/09 at 01:44:01:
I've been playing 3. Nf3 as White after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6, but I'm considering experimenting with Nc3. I'm not really sure if I should do it or not, so I want to get some feedback about what to expect if I do, and how the positions might compare to those after Nf3. I've shyed away from playing against the Nimzo in the past, but, as I'm building my repertoire, I want to consider all possibilities. I feel like I've received good advice on similar questions I've asked here in the past, so I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions.

Thanks!


3. Nc3 allows the Nimzo, but preserves favorable versions of the Benoni, and QGD. If you can find a variation of the NID that you like as white (4. e3, 4. Qc2 are probably the best tries for advantage).

3. Nf3 means you'll need to prepare the Benoni/QID/QGD precisely to hope for an edge.
  
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Scott
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Why did I just move that?!

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Nc3 or Nf3
05/24/09 at 01:44:01
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I've been playing 3. Nf3 as White after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6, but I'm considering experimenting with Nc3. I'm not really sure if I should do it or not, so I want to get some feedback about what to expect if I do, and how the positions might compare to those after Nf3. I've shyed away from playing against the Nimzo in the past, but, as I'm building my repertoire, I want to consider all possibilities. I feel like I've received good advice on similar questions I've asked here in the past, so I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions.

Thanks!
  
My style is somewhere between that of Petrosian and Tal.
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