Markovich wrote on 06/04/09 at 23:38:07:

That is very interesting- for it's the same line that I first saw a few years ago and liked the look of, and ArkHeiN also suggested independently.  It is very easy to underestimate.

I have my doubts about 4...b6.  Not that it's a bad move, but in common with most of Black's alternatives to 4...Nc6, the approaches with f2-f3 work quite well against it.  Also, I don't recall ...b6 ever being regarded as a good response to the Blackmar-Diemer (which is basically an inferior relative of the Staunton).

1.d4 f5 2. e4 fe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 b6

When I checked the databases, I noticed that there are two widely played variations at this point. There are also few alternate options which I will look at variation C.

A. 5.Bf6 ef6 and now
A1. 6. Qh5 g6 7. Qd5 c6 8. Qe4 Qe7
After the Queens come off the board, White's attack potential is considerably reduced and Black is bit better. I guess with two bishops, Black is the side most players would like to play this position. White starts the game aggresively for the builds of an attack then exchanges Queens for recovering his gambit pawn meanwhile handing two-bishops advantage to his opponent.
A2. 6.Ne4 Qe7 7. Qe2 (7.Qh5 Kd8 and Black is better) and now both 7....Ba6 and 7...Bb7 are good, with advantage to Black. Again with two Bishops Black should be fine.
All these considerations make me think that following line is more critical:
B. 5.f3
Consistant. In my opinion White, having said A with 2.e4, should go on with his initial attacking plan. Now:
B1. 5...Bb7 leads to the analysis Chwileulotne85 mentions above rather forcefully. 6. fe4 Ne4  (If Black does not take with Knight why in the first place he played 4....b6 ?) 7.Ne4 Be4 8.Bd3
Like Chwileulotne85, I also believe White is much better here and although there may be ways to avoid immediate catastrophe for Black, it is much easier to play with White.
B2. 5...e3
I believe this move sidesteps all the dangers of B1 variation and allows Black to have a playable position
6. Be3 Bb7 with usual White opening advantage.
B3. 5....ef3 !? Interesting alternative. Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but there are players who just grab materail and suffer for a while with the hopes of gradually stifling opponent's initiative then make use of his extra pawn unless there is a direct and forceful refutation. After 6.Qf3 Nc6 I can not see any direct refutation and Black seems to be doing fine.
Again a word of warning, this pawn grabbing looks risky and not a lot of players would go for it but if you do not mind getting some pressure it might be tried.
C. There are minor alternatives for White at move 5.
C1. 5.Bc4 e6
C1a. 6.Bf6 Qf6 7.Ne4 Qe7 Black is fine, his King will find safe heaven at Queenside
C1b. 6.Ne4 d5 7.Nf6 gf6 8. Qh5 Ke7 9. Bf6 Kf6
An irrational position occurs on the board. I do not believe White has enough for the piece. The point is after 10. Qh4 Kf7 11. Qd8 Bb4 and Black is winning.
C2. 5. Qd2 with the idea of quick 0-0-0 and attack
5....Bb7 6.0-0-0 e6 and Black is not worse, to say the least.

Conclusion : Is 4...b6 any better than 4....Nc6 ? I honestly do not think so. On the contrary I believe 4. Nc6 to be stronger than 4...b6 because if handled correctly by Black White can not get even the usual opening advantage after 4...Nc6. But the point is while 4....b6 also allows the Black player some playable positions with less lines to know, 4....Nc6 requires the Black player to know quite a deal of theory which also requires heavy homework. Instead of trying to guess If White will place his Queen on d4 or e2, or If he will play h4 instead of Bf6 (I can add more but I stop here) you sidestep heavily analysed variations and simply play your own game.
For my part, I will use 4...b6 occasionaly not to let my opponents prepare against me properly. Instead of playing 4...Nc6 and then go on until move 15 on auto-pilot, my opponents will have to think over the board.

If you think that some of the analysis given above have holes please let me know. Or if you have suggestions, improvements or other ideas I would like to hear them.

I hope this mail helps in one way or another to Black players who might decide to give 4...b6 a try.

Quote:

 
I've switched to 4...Nc6 because of my own analysis. I don't like esspecialy one line for Black which occurs after:
4...b6 5.f3 Bb7 6.fxe4!? Nxe4 7. Nxe4 Bxe4 and now 8. Bd3! with a nice advantage for White, for example:
8...d5 9. Bxe4 dxe4 10. Qh5! g6 11. Qg4!
8...Bxd3 9. Qxd3 Nc6 10. Ne2 d5 11. 0-0 Qd7 12. Rae1 0-0-0 13. Nf4!? Re8 14. Ne6 Nd8 15. Nxd8 Rxd8 and 16. Qa6 with good attacking prospect via Rook e3-a3, Rook f7 etc

Chwileulotne85 wrote on 06/05/09 at 07:50:32:


I have met Staunton with traditional recommendation 4...Nc6 (with success) but recently I was thinking of adding 4....b6 to my arsenal.
Chwileulotne85 ; why do you consider changing 4...b6 ? Do you have difficulties with this particular line ?
I checked databases and also analysed critical lines, it seemed quite playable to me.

He does mention 6.Qe2, but only refers to one game where black plays 6..d6 and is terrorised on the weak e6 square.

Have completed the ICC Staunton gambit lectures.

The lectures are focused on showing the white potential by playing this gambit. A black player can be quite depressed by looking at this "propaganda"....

The Staunton IS a dangerous weapon and has to treated with respect. 

I suggest that you get a book on the dutch, that look at this variation from the black perspective. 4..Nc6 is the way to go.

Thanks guys for suggestions. I've played 4...b6 before, but as I checked some games with 4...Nc6, I'll switch to it! 

Quote:

This is the best way for me too.

thanks!!!

White's latest big thing is 4.Bg5 Nc6 5.d5 Ne5 6.Qe2!, which I've played with uniform success in some recent cc games.  A very recent NIC Yearbook has a piece on this line.  I certainly don't fear a possible Pirc after 1...d6, but I can't decide whether to allow the Dutch with ...e6 or to play against the French.  The latter requires so much more study.

Hi guys.
I've watched Boris Alterman's gambit guide on Staunton gambit recently, and in all variations White has an edge or winning attack. 
So my question is about, how to response this Gambit in best way??What are the best defensive methods?