Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams (Read 126331 times)
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1839
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #76 - 11/22/09 at 13:42:53
Post Tools
Computers dont see everything, especially not in the opening fase. Computer see into the so called horizone and not
further. Many positons in Dragon are incorrectly computer evaluated in the opening fase. A typical example is in
regular dragon yugoslav attack 9 0-0-0 d5 when white takes the pawn and grabs Rook at a8 computers thinks white is
much better but a few forced moves later the opposete in shown. An other example is this line

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. O-O-O d5 10. exd5 Nxd5
11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Nxd5 cxd5 13. Qxd5 Qc7 14. Qc5 Qb7 15. Qa3 Bf5 16. Bd3 Rab8
17. b3 Qc6 18. Bxf5 Qc3 * 

Qc3 was invented by Golubev and computers fail to see that white is in danger.
At fist sight they think Bd3 is a draw but it loses more or less by force when the more deeplty investigating
the positon and after a while it (correctly) comes to the conclusion that white should return the piece and accept
a slight avantage to black.

If the position is inbalanced (pawn sac,exchange sac, structual weaknesses vs activety , Bishop vs Knight ,Rooks
vs Queen, space advantage vs weak squares or passive pieces) computers has lots of troubles evaluating of 
position. If material is equal and the positon is someting like +0.7 I have a feeling that black is in trouble, 
unless there are deep tactical tricks avaleble or black has active pieces.

Also in some endgames with advanced passed pawns vs piece or conneted passed pawn pawns at one flank vs 
extra pawn the position can be wrongly evaluated.

In my expericne, different engiens evalute the same position diffrently. I remember when Fritz 10 said this positon
is winning for white where books called it equal. Swithed enigne to Rybka and Rybka told the exact opposote.

The importent thing about opening choishes are that you like the resulting positions.
If the positon is complicated values like + 0.3 are playalbe for black.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #75 - 11/22/09 at 06:51:00
Post Tools
In addition to what BPaulsen said (which I agree with) sometimes computer programs correctly label a position as += or =+ but the positions demand a very high degree of accuracy that maybe only a computer or a very high rated player could handle.  I still wonder if this new opening (variation?) will stand the test of time but for now I'd say it's a decent practical weapon.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #74 - 11/22/09 at 06:37:46
Post Tools
Computer evaluation can be horribly misleading, and downright wrong at times, especially in far-reaching tactical situations that exceed the horizon. Examples would be the Botvinnik Semi-Slav, the King's Indian Defense, and the Dragon when it concerns opening theory.

Just take the evaluation with a grain of salt. It's not uncommon for a computer to label a position += or =+ when it's theoretically opposite after a few more moves, and the horizon catches up.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Reverse
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 11/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #73 - 11/22/09 at 06:14:19
Post Tools
I have a concern about this book. I have been going through some of the variations in the first chapter with deep rybka 3. Rybka seems to really prefer white in many of these positions, often giving anywhere from .3 to .7 advantage to white. My question is as follows: Should I care about this? So maybe black does not equalize does this mean that I, a 2000 rated player looking to get to master, should not play this opening? I want an opening that gets interesting tactically complicated positions.  Maybe I am using Rybka wrong and I should really exhaust every line 10 or 15 moves deep, I dont know. Any advice would be great.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #72 - 08/10/09 at 17:02:27
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 08/10/09 at 14:55:55:


The idea to connect ...a6 & ...g6 as such hardly deserves any specific name imho. 5...g6 6.f4 a6 and 5...g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 have nothing in common, for example. But people have right to say what they like.

Returning to the topic.

I see there insufficient respect to the name of Najdorf, it is my opinion - many people enjoy to play with names of others, it is a fact of life, but there should be limits, as a system it is not OK.

It would be nice to see the book, I am happy at least that it is not called Dra...dorf.You may like this:
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=miguelnajdorf&t=1000&a=n


Alien Fjord Mug
and
Formal Nude Jig

are good ones.

Oh, back to work....


Gr8t link! Kinda addictive though...

Tried it on some forum members, famous GMs and an opening

Angel Judo Firm, 
Blitz Men Sir, 
Satan John Oh Moss, 
Cheat Alimony,
Hitler Song, 
Gars Park Ovary, 
Man Kirk, 
Danger Hot 

Now, I guess this thread will never get back on topic or Tobacco Pink!  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1977
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #71 - 08/10/09 at 15:46:08
Post Tools
Cheeky monkey! Like it!!  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2343
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #70 - 08/10/09 at 14:55:55
Post Tools
GMGolubev wrote on 08/10/09 at 11:35:13:
MNb wrote on 08/08/09 at 02:14:55:


I want nothing, as I have no interest in this stuff. But I have seen the name Dragadorf attributed to all lines with ...a6; ...g6; indeed.


The idea to connect ...a6 & ...g6 as such hardly deserves any specific name imho. 5...g6 6.f4 a6 and 5...g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 have nothing in common, for example. But people have right to say what they like.

Returning to the topic.

I see there insufficient respect to the name of Najdorf, it is my opinion - many people enjoy to play with names of others, it is a fact of life, but there should be limits, as a system it is not OK.

It would be nice to see the book, I am happy at least that it is not called Dra...dorf.


You may like this:
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=miguelnajdorf&t=1000&a=n

Alien Fjord Mug
and
Formal Nude Jig

are good ones.

Oh, back to work....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMGolubev
Junior Member
**
Offline


ChessPublishing KID

Posts: 52
Location: Odessa UKRAINE
Joined: 12/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #69 - 08/10/09 at 11:35:13
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 08/08/09 at 02:14:55:


I want nothing, as I have no interest in this stuff. But I have seen the name Dragadorf attributed to all lines with ...a6; ...g6; indeed.


The idea to connect ...a6 & ...g6 as such hardly deserves any specific name imho. 5...g6 6.f4 a6 and 5...g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 have nothing in common, for example. But people have right to say what they like.

Returning to the topic.

I see there insufficient respect to the name of Najdorf, it is my opinion - many people enjoy to play with names of others, it is a fact of life, but there should be limits, as a system it is not OK.

It would be nice to see the book, I am happy at least that it is not called Dra...dorf.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #68 - 08/08/09 at 02:14:55
Post Tools
GMGolubev wrote on 08/07/09 at 22:02:15:
There is 6.f4 a6 also, and many other things. Do you want to have a common name for all lines with ...a6, ...g6 ?!


I want nothing, as I have no interest in this stuff. But I have seen the name Dragadorf attributed to all lines with ...a6; ...g6; indeed.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2343
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #67 - 08/07/09 at 23:51:03
Post Tools
"A rose by any other name..."

With respect, think Golubev -san needs to chilll a bit re Najdorf. Unless the next article or book includes a photoshopped pic of the eminent Argentinean in a frilly frock, no real issue I feel.

Anyone interested in discussing the book and its chess contents...?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMGolubev
Junior Member
**
Offline


ChessPublishing KID

Posts: 52
Location: Odessa UKRAINE
Joined: 12/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #66 - 08/07/09 at 22:02:15
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 08/05/09 at 01:14:58:
Again it depends on how strict you are. White played Bg5 iso Be3.

Rabar,B - Udovcic,M [B94]
JUGch Novi Sad (2), 1955

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 Nbd7 7.Bc4 g6 8.f3 Bg7 9.Qd2 0-0 10.0-0-0 Ne5 11.Bb3 Bd7 12.Bh6 Rc8 13.h4 Nc4 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 15.Bxg7 Kxg7 16.h5 Ng8 17.e5 b5 18.hxg6 fxg6 19.exd6 exd6 20.Ne4 Qe7 21.Rde1 Qe5 22.Nxd6 Qxd6 23.Nf5+ Bxf5 24.Qxd6 Rxc2+ 25.Kd1 Rcc8 26.Qd4+ Nf6 27.Re7+ Kg8 28.Rhxh7 Rfd8 29.Reg7+ Kf8 30.Rh8+ 1-0

Bogdanovic,R - Rabar,B [B94]
JUGch Novi Sad (10), 1955

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 Nbd7 7.Bc4 g6 8.f3 Bg7 9.Qd2 h6 10.Be3 Qc7 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.0-0 b5 13.Nd5 Nxd5 14.Bxd5 Bb7 15.Bxb7 Qxb7 16.b3 ½-½


6.Bg5 is another story completely.

It may transpose in some lines with Bg5-h6 = Be3-h6, but basically it has nothing in common with what is discussed here, imho.

There is 6.f4 a6 also, and many other things. Do you want to have a common name for all lines with ...a6, ...g6 ?!
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
GMGolubev
Junior Member
**
Offline


ChessPublishing KID

Posts: 52
Location: Odessa UKRAINE
Joined: 12/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #65 - 08/07/09 at 21:58:38
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 08/04/09 at 22:20:09:
Depends on how strict you are. Is Black allowed to play ...Nc6 ? Then quite a few have played it. Should the knight always go to d7? And does the name only apply against the Yugoslav? The two earliest games stem from the YUGch 1955. No Reshevsky here. And I could not find one single Botvinnik game coming close. Could GM Golubev provide more information?


Basically, it is 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 without early ...Nc6.

Botvinnik's games are already posted above, thanks.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
GMGolubev
Junior Member
**
Offline


ChessPublishing KID

Posts: 52
Location: Odessa UKRAINE
Joined: 12/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Willi
Reply #64 - 08/07/09 at 21:56:54
Post Tools
GMGolubev wrote on 08/07/09 at 21:56:21:
[quote author=MNb link=1244460215/45#46 date=1249424409]Depends on how strict you are. Is Black allowed to play ...Nc6 ? Then quite a few have played it. Should the knight always go to d7? And does the name only apply against the Yugoslav? The two earliest games stem from the YUGch 1955. No Reshevsky here. And I could not find one single Botvinnik game coming close. Could GM Golubev provide more information?


Basically, it is 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 without early ...Nc6.

Botvinnik's games are already posted above, thanks.




  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
GMGolubev
Junior Member
**
Offline


ChessPublishing KID

Posts: 52
Location: Odessa UKRAINE
Joined: 12/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #63 - 08/07/09 at 21:56:21
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 08/04/09 at 22:20:09:
Depends on how strict you are. Is Black allowed to play ...Nc6 ? Then quite a few have played it. Should the knight always go to d7? And does the name only apply against the Yugoslav? The two earliest games stem from the YUGch 1955. No Reshevsky here. And I could not find one single Botvinnik game coming close. Could GM Golubev provide more information?


Basically, it is 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 a6 without early ...Nc6.




  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2343
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: "The New Sicilian Dragon" by Simon Williams
Reply #62 - 08/07/09 at 14:45:13
Post Tools
The way Si Williams is going, you can ask him some time next year if he still thinks the opening is suitable for himself....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo