CraigEvans wrote on 07/07/09 at 20:48:59:
TN wrote on 07/06/09 at 23:26:46:
When referring to the 'English', does this include the 1.Nf3 followed by 2.c4 move order, or is it limited to the 1.c4 move order?
In my opinion the 1.Nf3 move order is slightly more precise because it eliminates the 1.c4 e5 variation, which has always been labelled as equal.
I suppose the English is the entire complex... however, as with MNb, I am not sure I consider 1.Nf3 a more accurate move order. Moreover, even if 1.c4 e5 is eventually "equal" the amount of complexity, positional nuances, possibilities for both sides to deviate/improve in most lines is far greater than in any of the 1.d4 alternative openings I would say, and also the equality is of a strategically balanced nature - the equality does not necessarily mean the position is drawish, so much as both sides have possibilities but these should balance each other with correct play. Furthermore, the system with 1.Nf3 pretty much necessitates playing the QGD if required, whereas the 1.c4 option gives white greater scope to avoid this.
As I said initially, the English is completely not my type of chess, in fact it is the sort of chess that makes me want to give up chess. But, compared to the other options presented, I believe it is unarguably a richer and more potent opening than the likes of the Colle/Torre/Tromp.
Still, I was one of the people who voted for "other", and that choice was predicated on the BDG, not the English.
I agree that the English (1.c4 move order) is a strategically very rich opening, almost always leads to interesting positions with plenty of scope to outplay the opponent, and I would add that it has been used successfully at the top level by players such as Kasparov, Carlsen and especially Andersson. This is why I play both the 1.c4 and 1.Nf3 English move orders in my own games.
1.Nf3 does not necessitate playing the QGD if White wishes to avoid a theoretical duel: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 and now 3.b3 or 3.g3. However, these lines are objectively harmless after 3.b3 Be7!? 4.Bb2 Bf6 (completely equal) or 3.g3 dc4 4.Qa4 Nd7 5.Qc4 a6 6.Bg2 b5 7.Qc2 Bb7, with a slightly improved Catalan for Black (also innocuous for Black). I don't see how the 1.c4 move order gives White greater scope to avoid the QGD, since the alternatives to a quick d4 are likely to transpose to 3.b3 or 3.g3.
Quote:Compared to the other options presented, I believe it is unarguably a richer and more potent opening than the likes of the Colle/Torre/Tromp.
Generally speaking, I agree with you, although I would make an exception for the Tromp, which I consider equivalent to the English (1.c4 and 1.Nf3) in theoretical value and almost equivalent in complexity and positional nuances.
As I stated earlier, from a purely theoretical perspective, 1.c4 e5 is equal. From a semi-theoretical perspective, 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.d4 is somewhere between += and =. I think White should achieve += with best play against the QGD, with both the Nge2 Exchange Variation and 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3, although the majority of theoretical works disagree with me on the latter variation.
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