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Romanticism and Chess    
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The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse    
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Total votes: 19
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 07/17/09 at 23:52:47 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) (Read 40634 times)
Uruk
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #92 - 07/21/09 at 23:28:35
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Gambit, you're saying people play 1...g6 because they can't play Open games.

If so, how to explain that many play both 1...g6 & 1...e5 (Mamedyarov, Bologan come to mind) ?


  
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TonyRo
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Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C)
Reply #91 - 07/21/09 at 21:52:48
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Here's an example of an overly primitive and completely twisted chess perspective:

Gambit wrote on 07/21/09 at 20:42:56:
Here is an example of cowardice: 1 e4 g6  Eeek! Scared of gambits!

Here is are examples of bravery: 1 e4 e5 2 f4!
                                             1 e4  e5  2 Nf3 f5!

  
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Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C)
Reply #90 - 07/21/09 at 20:42:56
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Here is an example of cowardice: 1 e4 g6  Eeek! Scared of gambits!

Here is are examples of bravery: 1 e4 e5 2 f4!
                                             1 e4  e5  2 Nf3 f5!
  
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can I take that back,
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #89 - 07/21/09 at 20:36:45
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/21/09 at 16:11:15:
Time to change the name of this thread!


Yep, liking the new name!
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #88 - 07/21/09 at 16:11:15
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Time to change the name of this thread!
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #87 - 07/21/09 at 12:31:50
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Funny thread.

Apparently I was being a coward on those few times I've trotted out the Pirc/Modern with the full intention of playing for the full point. In fact, against 2200+ competition I score better percentage-wise than with the French. It has nothing to do with being afraid of some vaunted gambit, but rather attempting to force the opponent to play for himself from an earlier stage, which makes for better winning chances in tournament play, arguably.

I'll play however I need to play if it produces wins. Cowardice or otherwise.
  

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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #86 - 07/21/09 at 12:11:50
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I have played the Jaenisch Gambit in the Ruy Lopez more than a few times. And I have played the Scotch as well from the Black side as well, some years back.
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #85 - 07/21/09 at 08:45:27
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Gambit wrote on 07/21/09 at 06:17:58:
The assertion is correct. Someone who plays 1...g6 most likely is afraid of meeting the King's Gambit, the Goering Gambit, the Danish Gambit, etc. The 1...e5 player would be more prepared to meet the 150 Attack for one simple reason.

Shocked
Rather more likely that he doesnt like the black side of the Ruy or Scotch. If after 1.e4 e5 it was mandatory for white to sack a pawn, I predict that 1...e5 would skyrocket in popularity.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #84 - 07/21/09 at 07:33:58
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Gambit wrote on 07/21/09 at 06:17:58:
The assertion is correct. Someone who plays 1...g6 most likely is afraid of meeting the King's Gambit, the Goering Gambit, the Danish Gambit, etc. The 1...e5 player would be more prepared to meet the 150 Attack for one simple reason.

You see, the open-position player has to have knowledge of playing against closed positions. However, in my experience, once 1...g6 players have their position opened up, they do not know what to do. Likewise, most people do not know what to do once that precious Bg7 is exchanged. And I speak from experience.


Your own experience hence the subjectivism. 
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #83 - 07/21/09 at 06:17:58
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The assertion is correct. Someone who plays 1...g6 most likely is afraid of meeting the King's Gambit, the Goering Gambit, the Danish Gambit, etc. The 1...e5 player would be more prepared to meet the 150 Attack for one simple reason.

You see, the open-position player has to have knowledge of playing against closed positions. However, in my experience, once 1...g6 players have their position opened up, they do not know what to do. Likewise, most people do not know what to do once that precious Bg7 is exchanged. And I speak from experience.
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #82 - 07/21/09 at 02:51:27
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Uruk wrote on 07/20/09 at 22:02:45:
I wonder why you call 1.e4 g6 more cowardly than 1.e4 e5

You could say the g6-player is afraid of the KG,
but by the same logic, the e5-player could be afraid of the 150A.

Please explain.


I can do that. In LDZ's world cowardice means playing moves he does not like to meet. Other examples are 4...c6 and 5...c6 against the BDG. So it's just extreme subjectivism - a move is cowardly because LDZ says so. The obvious advantage is that LDZ never has to change his opinion, no matter what the rest of the world says.
  

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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #81 - 07/21/09 at 01:01:01
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But are you not discussing cowardice? Isn’t what constitutes being a coward a matter for philosophical subjectivism?....you are never going to get a sensible answer that can be agreed up?..
HTH
Angry
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #80 - 07/20/09 at 22:02:45
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I wonder why you call 1.e4 g6 more cowardly than 1.e4 e5

You could say the g6-player is afraid of the KG,
but by the same logic, the e5-player could be afraid of the 150A.

Please explain.
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #79 - 07/20/09 at 17:30:09
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I've already tried- I think Black's position isn't lost (8...Ba5 9.Rb5 Bxd2+ 10.Qxd2 Kd8 11.e4 a6, or 9.e4 Nge7 10.Rb5 Bxd2+ 11.Qxd2 Nxd5 12.exd5 Nd8) but I would not want to defend those positions in a slow game, Black has to find "only moves" to stay alive and White has numerous attacking possibilities.  But I still use it as a surprise weapon in rapidplay and a regular weapon at blitz and casual games- most opponents duck out with harmless replies like 4.g3 (including one amusing instance of 4.g3 Nxe5 5.Nc3 Nxf3#).  That's probably the closest you'll get to genuine "cowardice".

But it all depends on how serious the theoretical flaw is.  For instance I wheeled out the Portuguese/Jadoul Gambit twice at a recent tournament (1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4) and even 3.Nf3 Bg4, despite knowing that both are theoretically dubious.  The difference is that the theoretical flaw would be much harder to remember, or stumble into OTB.

At my level I don't use computers to get "ready answers", particularly as I wouldn't be able to remember all of the analysis.  I use them as a tool to assist analysis.
  
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Re: Cowardice in Chess
Reply #78 - 07/20/09 at 04:42:19
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SWJediknight wrote on 07/18/09 at 21:08:50:
Very good post IMHO, particularly the last paragraph.

I do think LDZ has a lot of positives to contribute to the forum, and as stated earlier I sympathise with his approach to chess, but some heed of that last para would be in order.

It is true that the wheels can come off if you realise that an opening line is unsound.  For instance I used to be a regular practicioner of the main line Englund Gambit, scoring well with it in all forms of play, but having seen the strength of 8.Nd5!, I have stopped using it in slow games, wary that an opponent could stumble into that line- though it still gets regular outings in casual and rapid games.



So what? Use that smart computer of yours to find a counter to 8 Nd5!
After all, is not that what people worship the chess engine for? To have ready answers?
  
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