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Question: Should this Thread's name be changed?


* This poll has now closed *
No 2 (10.5%) Yes: 2 (10.5%) Romanticism and Chess 0 (0.0%) Gambit on Chess 3 (15.8%) Vertically Isolated Dispersions 2 (10.5%) Great Train Wrecks 2 (10.5%) Others: (50 characters or less) 3 (15.8%) The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse 5 (26.3%) Total votes: 19 « Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 07/17/09 at 23:52:47 »

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The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) (Read 40617 times)

Uruk Senior Member Offline Posts: 351 Joined: 02/03/09	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #107 - 07/23/09 at 00:27:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Sorry I'm not sure what a gambit is. After 1.d4 d5 2.e4 de 3.Nc3 e5, which black pawn is gambited (thus cowardly to decline), e4 or e5 ? Or is it considered a double gambit?


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #106 - 07/22/09 at 21:07:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gambit wrote on 07/22/09 at 04:51:31: Conclusion: Offering a gambit or even counter-gambit is not coward ice. Accepting a gambit or counter-gambit is not cowardice either. E.g., 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 or 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5 and now, 4 Nxe4! Declining a gambit, such as 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 e3? is cowardice. Aha! 1.e4 b6 is a brave move as Black hopes for 2.d4 e6 3.Bd3 f5. And 1.e4 g6 is also a brave move as Black wants to play 2.d4 Bg7 and 3...c5. As always you are nicely contradicting yourself. Gambit wrote on 07/22/09 at 04:51:31: MNb, you, not I, are the coward. Sure, that's how I feel in the third game I play with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 dxc4 7.e4 (I have White).

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #105 - 07/22/09 at 20:37:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hmm...now even the moderator is taking Gambit seriously. Am I alone in thinking this thread was NEVER really about chess, was NEVER serious and NEVER deserved or intended to be taken seriously? Gambit will probably not admit it, but I am sure he is getting a kick out of the many persons who tried to convince him how wrong and misguided he was.

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #104 - 07/22/09 at 19:28:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am going to leave this thread in general chess as long as it is (mostly) about chess. If you start discussing tiddly-winks, I may split it off.


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #103 - 07/22/09 at 16:34:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Musical chairs is not chess. The two games are played differently.


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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #102 - 07/22/09 at 14:09:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	Lev is starting to remind me of one of those broken records you play for musical chairs. You are a coward if you don't wait til the last chair is occupied!


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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #101 - 07/22/09 at 13:36:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gambit wrote on 07/22/09 at 11:40:18: General Chess is just fine. Hmm...this reinforces my point. It appears even Gambit is beginning to take himself seriously.

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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CraigEvans God Member Offline If I can't sacrifice a pawn, I'll throw my rook in Posts: 588 Location: Bryn, South Wales Joined: 07/14/03 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #100 - 07/22/09 at 12:37:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Recycle Bin would be more appropriate again.

	"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me. "If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #99 - 07/22/09 at 11:40:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	General Chess is just fine.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1976 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #98 - 07/22/09 at 08:01:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	[quote]... I realise that the occasional poster is still taking this thread seriously. I would suggest that the moderator move it to the more appropriate Chit Chat section. [/quote] Hear, hear! -- if it's not too time wasting to say so.


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1397 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #97 - 07/22/09 at 04:51:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 07/22/09 at 02:32:14: 1.e4 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 e5. Then 1.d4 e5 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.e4 Then 1.d4 d5 2.e4 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 Then 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e4 b5. Conclusion: LDZ is one of the biggest cowards around (something I already knew) when he advocates 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 or plays the BDG. He is scared to meet both the Albin's Counter Gambit (as White) and the Bogoljubow Gambit (as Black). Uruk wrote on 07/21/09 at 23:28:35: Gambit, you're saying people play 1...g6 because they can't play Open games. If so, how to explain that many play both 1...g6 & 1...e5 (Mamedyarov, Bologan come to mind) ? Simple. When they play 1...g6 they are afraid to meet the KG etcetera. When they play 1...e5 they are even more afraid that LDZ will call them cowardly. Offering a gambit or a counter-gambit is not cowardice, nor is accepting the gambit. To reply: It depends on what color you play. If I play Black, I can play 1...e5 against 1 d4. That is not cowardice. I can't be playing White and Black in the same game, correct? Then 1 d4 d5 2 e4 is NOT cowardice, since it offers a gambit. In the next game, I will gladly accept or play the Albin, once I have Black. Here we are assuming I have White. Conclusion: Offering a gambit or even counter-gambit is not coward ice. Accepting a gambit or counter-gambit is not cowardice either. E.g., 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 or 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5 and now, 4 Nxe4! Declining a gambit, such as 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 e3? is cowardice. MNb, you, not I, are the coward. Sh-t, I just beat Grandmaster Zoltan Varga of Hungary on the Internet Chess Club. The opening? Zilbermints Gambit, 3...Nge7


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #96 - 07/22/09 at 03:58:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Here are my conclusions: 1) The Hippopotamus, played as either White or Black, constitutes a very brave act. Trying to avoid gambits at all costs is in fact braver than trying to reach gambits at all costs. Everyone can sacrifice a pawn, but not everyone can resist the temptation to sacrifice. 2) Cowardice in chess, to put it simply, is an illogical, deep, unjustifiable and unfathomable fear of something in chess. 3) The art of 'flogging a dead horse' was mastered by the Sex Pistols in 1979, with the assistance of Virgin Records. 4) Offering a draw is a very brave act, because once you offer the draw, you cannot withdraw it yourself. Only the opponent can withdraw your draw offer. 5) The computer should be worshipped like a God, and its judgement should always be trusted. Even in theoretically drawn endgames.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #95 - 07/22/09 at 02:58:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	Before this thread was renamed, I was in a cafe a couple of days ago with my laptop relaxing when I ran into a friend. She wanted to use my laptop to check something, which was at the time on this thread. Nosy person she is, she asked a few questions and I tried as best as I could to explain. She could not stop laughing at the idea of chess players debating about what constitutes bravery. Anyway, I realise that the occasional poster is still taking this thread seriously. I would suggest that the moderator move it to the more appropriate Chit Chat section.

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #94 - 07/22/09 at 02:32:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.e4 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 e5. Then 1.d4 e5 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.e4 Then 1.d4 d5 2.e4 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 Then 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 is cowardice because it avoids 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e4 b5. Conclusion: LDZ is one of the biggest cowards around (something I already knew) when he advocates 1.d4 e5 2.dxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 Nge7 or plays the BDG. He is scared to meet both the Albin's Counter Gambit (as White) and the Bogoljubow Gambit (as Black). Uruk wrote on 07/21/09 at 23:28:35: Gambit, you're saying people play 1...g6 because they can't play Open games. If so, how to explain that many play both 1...g6 & 1...e5 (Mamedyarov, Bologan come to mind) ? Simple. When they play 1...g6 they are afraid to meet the KG etcetera. When they play 1...e5 they are even more afraid that LDZ will call them cowardly.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 916 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: The Art of Flogging a Dead Horse (formerly C in C) Reply #93 - 07/22/09 at 01:37:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	But surely: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 is cowardice because it avoids 2.Nf3 f5! 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 is cowardice because it avoids 2...Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d4, 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4, 4.b4, 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.0-0, 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3, and most of all, the fearsome Jerome Gambit with 4.Bxf7+!


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