ChessPub Forum - 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B)

parisestmagique Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 473 Location: paris Joined: 01/24/06 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #9 - 07/24/09 at 12:44:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	Kiril Georgiev in "the Sharpest Sicilian" gives 5.f3 e5! 6.Nb3 Be6 7.c4 a5! 8.Be3 a4 9.N3d2 Qa5 10.Be2 Be7 11.0-0 Bd8! with good play


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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1839 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #8 - 07/23/09 at 20:13:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Also forget to mention when I faced this variation in practise, I sometimes even play g6 or Nc6 allowing the bind. I have discovered that white players who are aimning for the bind this way are usually not very good at positional play at all. Even if they are the Bind is not as strong as it used to be (heard this from many players but I did still rather face yugoslav 9 0-0-0 instead of the bind). EDIT Some strong players actually has played Nc3 (not c4) anyway after g6. Maybee becouse they do not like that to play an early f3 in the Bind, maybbe d6 Nxd4 system is stronger sicne there white usually plays Be2 first...
	« Last Edit: 07/24/09 at 08:56:26 by bragesjo »

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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #7 - 07/22/09 at 17:59:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm not sure how a kind of English Attack could be expected to come about, given White's idea of playing c4 if allowed (e.g. after 5...e5 6. Nb3 Be6/7). In such lines ...a5 is indeed a long-known idea (I think of a game Wolff-Browne).


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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1839 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #6 - 07/22/09 at 17:44:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the Sharpest sicilian (Najdorf book) they did not rate f3 very high since black could enter a sort of english attack after e5 but the move a5 could be played in just one move.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10780 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #5 - 07/21/09 at 02:15:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Lodewijk Prins is one of the oldest chessplayers to be granted with the GM-title. He was famous for his organisational skills and also for his skill to quarrel with literally everyone. Especially his quarrels with Donner, that other colourfull Dutch GM, were infamous. Donner once said about Prins that he could not see the difference between a knight and a bishop. Still Prins was pretty good. He beat Euwe in 1946, Gligoric and Pirc in 1951 and Kotov in 1954. He played his variation against Geller in 1952 and drew. His major disappointment was being excluded from the famous Groningen 1946 tournament. The Russians had shown up with 4 players instead of the promised 3. There was no question that Euwe would withdraw, so Prins was the victim. Several decades later Groningen organized an anniversary tournament. To make things up Prins was invited. He still was angry and refused. And yes, Prins was also known for his very outspoken ideas on chess. That was Donner's main reason to make fun of him.

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HoemberChess God Member Offline Posts: 512 Location: Lake d4 on Planet Chess Joined: 10/08/07 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #4 - 07/20/09 at 17:16:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	"5 f3 is named after the Dutch player Lodewijk Prins who employed it throughout his career: Denker was surprised by it at Hastings 1945/46 and Prins was still wheeling it out at the 1993 Cattolica Open! Evidently Prins believed in 5 f3; a move which Fine and Keres had made occasional use of in the thirties, just like Ivanchuk, McShane, Naiditsch, Ponomariov and Short have been known to do in recent years when wanting a day off from the main lines of the Open Sicilian. The positional 5 f3 has been growing in popularity of late among grandmasters, but remains fairly unknown at lower levels. Part of Black's problem is that with 4 Nxd4 White opted for an Open Sicilian, and so one doesn't find any information on the Prins Variation in either of the fine works on the Anti-Sicilians by Gallagher and Rogozenko. All levels of players do indeed remain unprepared for 5 f3; just witness what happened to the talented namesake (rated 2568 at the time) of a former world champion" Above is an excerpt from TN wrote on 07/20/09 at 13:02:21: Firstly, Black can always avoid this with the move order 3...Nf6, when 4.Nc3 (other moves are innocuous) 4...cd4 5.Nd4 g6 transposes back to the Dragon. White can try to avoid the Open Sicilian with 5.Qd4, but then 5...Nc6 is fine for Black. According to 'Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian', White has good chances of achieving an advantage after 5...e5 6.Nb3, but stronger is 5...e6 6.c4 Nc6 7.Nc3 Be7 (by no means forced, by the way), after which Black faces no theoretical problems after 8.Be3 0-0 9.Be2 d5!? 10.cd5 ed5 11.Nc6 bc6 12.ed5 Nd5! 13.Nd5 cd5 and this IQP position is equal. Alternatively, 5...Nc6 6.c4 Qb6!? 7.Nc2 g6 makes sense if Black has some familiarity with the Accelerated Dragon. Then 8.Nc3 Bg7 9.Rb1 Ng4!? is quite tricky for White to meet. Well, I don't know... Should I suggest him playing something similar to his usual Dragon..? (with 5..Nc6 6.c4 Qb6!? 7.Nc2 g6) The only resource I know about is this DW book.

	as W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc) B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]\| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]\| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6\| 1Nf3:c5
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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #3 - 07/20/09 at 15:15:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	A classic game in this line is Lombardy-Fischer, annotated in "My 60 Memorable Games." It involved Black playing for ...d5 as given by TN, with White trying to restrain it via Nc2.


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #2 - 07/20/09 at 13:02:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	Firstly, Black can always avoid this with the move order 3...Nf6, when 4.Nc3 (other moves are innocuous) 4...cd4 5.Nd4 g6 transposes back to the Dragon. White can try to avoid the Open Sicilian with 5.Qd4, but then 5...Nc6 is fine for Black. According to 'Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian', White has good chances of achieving an advantage after 5...e5 6.Nb3, but stronger is 5...e6 6.c4 Nc6 7.Nc3 Be7 (by no means forced, by the way), after which Black faces no theoretical problems after 8.Be3 0-0 9.Be2 d5!? 10.cd5 ed5 11.Nc6 bc6 12.ed5 Nd5! 13.Nd5 cd5 and this IQP position is equal. Alternatively, 5...Nc6 6.c4 Qb6!? 7.Nc2 g6 makes sense if Black has some familiarity with the Accelerated Dragon. Then 8.Nc3 Bg7 9.Rb1 Ng4!? is quite tricky for White to meet.

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BPaulsen God Member Offline I Love Light Squares! Posts: 1702 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Joined: 11/02/08 Gender:	Re: 2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B) Reply #1 - 07/20/09 at 12:52:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	The first thing that comes to mind is the thematic (for the Sicilian in general, not the Dragon) 5...e5 intending 6...d5. Opening the center just highlights the weakness created by the non-developing 5. f3 No specific recommendations come to mind since this is very much an obscure sideline.

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HoemberChess

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2..d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3? (B)
07/20/09 at 12:44:47

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1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. f3?

I need an anditode for Black against this move-order. White's aim is to erect a pawn barrier with a coming c4. (A kind of accelerated Maroczy Bind!?)

What is this 5.f3 called?
I don't play the line with either color, but tomorrow I will have to give instructions to a young player with high ambitions, who normally (after 5.Nc3) plays 5..g6 (the Dragon), who got defeated in this line in an OTB tournament a few days ago. He didn't get to play ..g6 at all in the game.

Please, recommend book(s)/video(s)/Fritz Trainer(s) etc for Black.

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5

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