bigbelly wrote on 07/27/09 at 23:22:40:


Perhaps. But the IZ happens to be an opening I understand a little as I have played it for more than 12 years, won a few good games and suffered some bad losses. I studied a few books from cover to cover plus analysed several games of strong players.

The setup Nbd2 + Qc2 against the IZ has lost much of its popularity it enjoyed in the 50's. The reason is that White loses control of d5; as a result e6-e5 becomes easier. The idea that Nc3 weakens White's control of e5 has proven to be wrong in many lines. The reason of this is that Black often finds it hard to play the desired Nc6 as it is answered with d4-d5. This was pointed out by Taimanov in 1980.

That remark on ...c6 was based on the old main line 7...Qe8 8.Re1 Qg6 9.e4 fxe4 10.Nxe4 Nxe4 11.Rxe4 Nc6 which obviously is not possible after an early ...c6. As I already wrote, to my surprise 9.Re1 did not quite work.

The idea that the exchange of the black squared bishops favours Black in the IZ goes back to a statement of Alekhine. He once wrote that Black's King's bishop is absolutely useless in the IZ. That is a bit exaggerated, but there is a strong core of truth in it.
Basically it is quite simple. If Black heads for the formation d6-e5-f5 the bishop is passive on e7, as it is blocked by its own pawns. At the other hand White's bishop on b2 is very strong against Black's formation, especially combined with a knight on f3 or d3. In some important lines Black struggles to develop counterplay exactly because ...e5 loses this pawn.
So if the pawn is still on d7 and White is so nice to play Ba3 it is evident to me that Black should exchange, play ...d6 and prepare ...e5. It follows logically that White should leave the bishop on c1 until Black has declared his/her intentions.

Concerning my perceived disdain for GM's - Glek has played the combination of ...Bb4+; Bd2, Bxd2+ with the Stonewall formation a few times and quite recently. That is no reason for me to recommend it. Call me pompous if you like, but I have a few ideas about the IZ. I can back them with arguments (not in the meaning of quarrel, but of logic) plus illustrate them with sample lines. A few of them I have outlined above. So pompous, yes, but vague? Hardly.

Schaakhamster wrote on 07/22/09 at 20:16:03:


The ..Be7 Stonewall has fallen out of favor.  After 6..d5, White's best plan is supposed to be 7.Qc2 c6 8.Nbd2 intending to follow-up with Nf3-e5-d3 and Nd2-f3.  The grip on e5 is thought to give White an enduring edge.

MNb:

I know this is not the place to be discussing this English line so I won't belabor it here (though i would like to talk more about the line in general). In my database, the Black system mentioned above against the Botvinnik System seems to do OK with c6, OO, Na6 etc. Last question. Would the Be7 be more passive here than in the IZ?

Thanks.

MNb:

I am curious... As a IZ player, do you play the e5, d6, f5, Be7 system against the English (which obviously gets e5 in in one move rather than 2)?

Thanks,

Bela

These days we know a bit more than Larsen 50 years ago. The combination Qc2, Nbd2 is quite unfortunate against the IZ.
The reason b2-b3 is more useful than ...c7-c6 has everything to do with the thematical ...e6-e5. On a3 on b2 the Queen's Bishop is well placed to prevent it. At the other hand the pawn on c6 takes away this square from Black's Queen's Knight. Of course it can go to d7, but then Black will keep a passive bishop on c8 for a long time.

One sample game is Smyslov-Levitina, St Petersburg 1995.

After 1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 c6 7.b3 d6 8.Nc3 Qe8 White can play 9.Qc2. Normally this move is met with Nb8-c6 and a well timed ...Nb4, but that is not possible here. At the other hand the Queen has to remain on e8 for at least one move or White will play 10.Ba3.
But I was a bit surprised to learn that 9.Re1 can be met with ...Ne4 as 10.Bb2 Bf6 11.Nfd2 (normally the hardest to meet) Nxc3 12.Bxc3 e5 13.dxe5 Bxe5 14.Bxe5 dxe5 15.e4 f4! seems OK.
Of course 9.Bb2 a5 transposes to a main line.

So I suppose you mean to answer 7.b3 with Qe8 as well. After 8.Qc2 Qh5 9.Ba3 (still) Bxa3 10.Nxa3 d6 11.c5! White has the initiative, while Black's Queenside is undeveloped.

What's more, ...c6 is not always a usefull move in the Iljin-Zjenevsky, especially if White heads for a quick e2-e4.

After skipping through  "Win with the Stonewall Dutch" I was left wondering what the status of Be7 (as played by Botwinnik) instead of Bd6 (the modern treatment) is? I didn't really find much in my sources.

With my limited chessknowledge I was able to deduct 2 things:

a) Black isn't able to slow down the b3 Ba3 BxB plan as in the Bd6 line. Is this enough for whiet to claim an edge?
b) 1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 e6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. c4 O-O 6. O-O is fairly flexible allowing black the choice between IZ (7. d6 ), classical Stonewall (7. d5) and Alekhine's 7. Ne4.