trw wrote on 09/10/09 at 04:04:21:


After White's fourth move.

trw wrote on 09/09/09 at 20:58:15:

I too can hardly claim great understanding of chess, but I think that yes, many Modern Benoni positions have a nice feel from Black's side.  Many don't, so whether that system is += or not is a big question.  I suppose we both know the critical lines.  But it only slightly bears on this discussion, it seems to me.

I recall now as well that Black scores well from the position after 9...Bg4 in my data base.  And to me, that looks like a very nice position for Black.

The first thing I notice about that game is that it looks very close to a kind of Modern Benoni (with White playing e4, Nf3 and Bd3, without early h3) which is generally considered equal.

trw wrote on 09/09/09 at 18:01:12:


Say which game, I have so many.  Also you can see all the games of the match, which is m1245070358.

On www.net-chess.com, where I currently play as "gospodin."  Everything there is very informal, but when you issue an invitation to an event, you can stipulate a series of moves after which the game will begin.  I doubt that another thematic in this line would be very well attended, though.

But you can go there and look at any player's games, including mine.  In fact you can look at the games of this thematic, almost all of which are ongoing.  It's match m1245070358.

I lost one of my games as Black because of bad play, and I may similarly lose another.  But I haven't felt that I was any worse after 4...g6.

The worst thing about netchess is that you can start with a rating of at most 2000, but anybody there with much strength has a rating of at least 2700 (they go up to a maximum of 3000, where there are several players clustered).  So working your way up the rating ladder presupposes many games against rather pathetic opposition.  And once you establish that you're a comer, the people at the top often seem reluctant to play you.

Funny this should come up, because I'm playing in an informal CC round robin thematic against some moderately strong players in precisely this line.  4...g6 was my choice and I believe that Black is perfectly OK there.  I don't know what's so freaking pleasant about White's game.

Four of my opponents tried 4...Nc6 and in each case it went 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.d5 Nxc3 9.bxc3 Ne5 10.Nxe5 Qxc3+ 11.Bd2 Qxe5 12.0-0.  I could see how a machine would dupe someone into playing this way, but it amazed me that four of these guys all went in for this, which to me seems much too dangerous.  In any case, one lost on a blunder and the other three are gradually losing after 12...a6 13.Be3.  In general White invades along the c-file, just like taking candy from a baby.

A great many other of my games in this line have led to a rather closed position with both sides having pawns on K4,Q3 and QB4, where Black can hardly be much worse.  I did face 4...Bd7 once and as I recall Black's game is O.K. there as well.

I suppose I agree that White's position is flexible, but I would never play this way because it just doesn't do anything to challenge Black.  I wouldn't play this way unless I thought someone would try to win those two pawns after 4...Nc6 5.d4, anyhow.

trw wrote on 09/09/09 at 02:41:35:


As the white squared bishop is the one piece that has options on where it can move, I would say that committing to Be2 wasn't flexible. But as White, can take such luxuries.
What can be gained by playing 3.Be2 instead of 3.c3?

trw wrote on 09/09/09 at 02:41:35:


Point 1: 
a)White has a pleasant game, so does black. Dearie me. It is move 4 and people are trying to solve chess again.
Be2 is a valid sytem, certainly. So is the sicilian. Both sides can fight.
b) Neither Basman nor Soltis very up-to-date. Best not follow religiously.

Point 2:
a) Perhaps as a moderator you may like to be more polite.
b) 'Flexible' does not necessarily equate to advantageous. Unless you are competing in the World OwnFootLicking contest.

kylemeister wrote on 09/08/09 at 16:49:19:


Curious but where are you getting that "Bd7" is book here? Its been played before yes but rarely. I notice adams played against twice achieving draws in both games (against Gelfand and Kasparov).

4... g6 leaves white a very pleasant game according to Basman and Soltis. But neither source mentions 4... Bd7

TonyRo wrote on 09/08/09 at 17:37:34:



Your post makes no sense. If white has no advantage after such a flexible move then white never has an advantage. The whole point of Be2 is how flexible it is for white.

I am not saying that this is the case, but judging by the way you worded your original post, it seems as though you think White should gain an edge in this line. Just out of curiousity, what makes you think that White should have something tangible after 3. Be2, which just looks to be an inflexible, premature development of a piece that probably shouldn't be moved yet? White is White sure, but White has to play actively and logically to stay White! 

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Be2 Nf6 4. c3 

the point is obvious that 4... Nxe4?? losses to Qa4+ so black is supposed to continue 4... Nc6 to close the diagonal and is now threatening Nxe4

but I had someone play 4.... Bd7 against me and there doesn't seem to be a clear way for white to get an edge or attack after that... I tried 5. e5 and considered 5. Qb3  and the standard reply is supposed to be 5. d3 which is so slow and defeats the whole point of this opening to play d4 in one shot....
Qc2 has been played before but then Qc7 still prevents d4 so white has to castle anyways.

suggestions?