Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 18
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Openings for adult class players (Read 182740 times)
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1846
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #123 - 10/28/09 at 14:50:26
Post Tools
I think if you're adult class player that's busy with kids, work, etc...then just play what you like and continue to study tactics, middlegames, endgames when you can, and just enjoy yourself while trying to make progress that way. 

If you really want to improve and build yourself a solid foundation, it's definitely worth reverting to 1. e4 and 1...e5, and just suffering through some tactical beatdowns. It will definitely teach you about facets of the game that  you probably have not been experiencing in Taimanovs, etc...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sandman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 134
Joined: 05/10/07
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #122 - 10/28/09 at 14:34:26
Post Tools
Could you share the names of the 2 books which were recommended?  I'm sure I'm probably not the only one that would be interested to know. 

As for the title of the thread, I currently play the QG with some catalans thrown in as white. With black I play the tarrasch and sicilian taimanov. I've gained about 150 points over my last 9 tournaments reaching 1700. Of course, as I've mentioned before, almost half my games as black were against the colle so that has helped my rating. 

Anyway, my question is should I, or other adult club players, play open games such as King's gambit and scotch or should I continue to play what I'm playing and feel comfortable with? I would describe myself as a slow positional player that likes to tie the game up and outplay my opponents I would say the endgame is my strength. This is the only way I've ever played and if this is hampering my development then I'd change to what will help me improve. If I should change to open games what would be the best choices to help me improve? I've thought about this some and if I go this route I'm thinking about the King's Bishop's gambit, exchange french and caro-kann (I'm not sure against the sicilian), and the tarrasch and Schliemann although I'm open to suggestions. Would these be good choices? I'm currently working thru "Weteschnik - Understanding Chess Tactics" to improve my tactics which I would say is my major weakness.


Advice appreciated.
Thanks
  

“All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy.
That's how far the world is from where I am.
Just one bad day.”
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jesse Gersenson
Full Member
***
Offline


Piece value = Mobility
+ targets

Posts: 162
Joined: 09/12/09
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #121 - 10/28/09 at 13:27:42
Post Tools
'directed study' is proving useful in my case. My arguement, not 
directly stated in my post, is this:
  • 10,000 hours of directed study is not a practical plan for improving my play


Fyi, there are a lot of books on tactics...In the model of self study, 
which i'd been following for a few years, I read a number of books on 
tactics. With directed study, I was given 2 books of the highest 
quality (for continued self study) and worked through tactical 
problems WITH AN INSTRUCTOR." 
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1846
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #120 - 10/28/09 at 12:29:29
Post Tools
Not to bubble burst here, but I think anyone in this forum could have looked at 4 games of a 1400 player, diagnosed the problem, recommended you 2 books, and sent you on your way to 1800. In fact, I wouldn't have even needed to look at the games. If you're 1400, your tactics probably suck, it's just as simple as that. 

Most tournament players make it to 1800 simply by studying some simple openings, endgames, and middlegame ideas, and studying huge amounts of tactics. The jump from 1400 - 1800 can be achieved relatively quickly, just like you did. After my first serious, long time control tournament (I played a lot of rapid in the previous couple of months), I was over 1700. It's really the jump from 1800-2000, then 2000-2200 that can take forever and require coaching, depending on the person.

Anyways, congrats on the big jump, hopefully you'll make the next one in the same amount of time! I'm looking into some coaches myself now that I've got a job and some bank.  Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jesse Gersenson
Full Member
***
Offline


Piece value = Mobility
+ targets

Posts: 162
Joined: 09/12/09
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #119 - 10/28/09 at 12:04:29
Post Tools
"10,000 hours of directed study," is 100x more than Lasker's 
"100 hours of lessons from me would turn any normal person into a 
chess master."

Granted, master level would not make you the 'greatest performer' 
[in the world], though for the practical player reading a thread 
titled "Openings for adult class players" it could mean being the 
greatest performer at your club. Certainly would mean winning a 
lot more games


My 100 hours of gm lessons

  • so far I've had 21.4 hours of lessons from a well regarded gm instructor/author.
  • All lessons were within a 6 month period
  • I have never taken chess lessons before
  • my rating has improved 350 points, from 1450 to 1800
  

I noticed my playing strength improving immediately after the first 
lesson. 

Before the first lesson I emailed the gm 4 of my recent games. At the 
start of the first lesson he said, "I looked very closely at each of your 
games, spending about 15 minutes (just 15 minutes!!) on each one. 
The weakest part of your game is pretty obvious and I'm sure you 
know what it is. Right?"

"I have no idea." I said. 

"Tactics." he said. This shocked me, I thought tactics were the 
strongest part of my game!?

He sent me two books to read, both of which i had never heard of. 

In his autobiography Einstein says something like, "I would have 
preferred to pursue a study of mathmatics as it seemed to be the 
most fundamental discipline to understanding the universe but there 
are so many branches of math, each one taking a lifetime to 
understand fully and, only then does one find out if it is a worthwhile 
pursuit, that it did not seem practical. So I chose theoretical physics."

It seems similar with amateurs, chess books and self instruction. 

The amateur does not know which books, exercises and concepts are 
needed to improve their play. A strong chess instructor can easily 
spot a player's 'obvious' weakness and proscribe an efficient 
way to strengthen it. 

In other words, 10,000 hours of undirected study could be more fruitless than 100 hours of directed study. I can't fathom the result of 10,000 hours of directed study."
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Uruk
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 351
Joined: 02/03/09
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #118 - 10/20/09 at 19:25:54
Post Tools
Willempie wrote on 10/20/09 at 15:17:53:

Van Wijngaarden isnt it? I think he thought that one up in the 50s.
But I think you will be amazed by the outcome of the test (I would be quite interested if it is possible to perform).


How naive my friend  Smiley
To compute 10 digits of Pi with the first algorithm (Gregory series) you need 10 billion iterations.
With the second (Machin's formula) you need...  SEVEN.

Advances have been made since then.
Borwein's algorithm (1985) quadruples the number of digits with each iteration.
You can do it on a pocket calculator. Or let a cluster on Gregory for several years.

What would you think of the following algorithm to sort a deck of cards?
 1) Shuffle all cards.
 2) If it ain't sorted, goto 1.
Your super cluster will struggle for quite some time.

Brute force without a smart software is vain. Again efficiency is everything.

Returning to topic, humans' ability to load new software clearly declines with age.
I think we describe as "talented" someone who's been right place right time and learned the tricks.
That would explain why Russians are generally more talented at chess than Americans Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sandman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 134
Joined: 05/10/07
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #117 - 10/20/09 at 16:43:23
Post Tools
WOW.   Cheesy  I come back from vacation and notice that this thread has really taken a life of its own. I want to thank everyone for your comments and input. However, I must say the thread seems to have gone completely off-topic. 


  

“All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy.
That's how far the world is from where I am.
Just one bad day.”
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #116 - 10/20/09 at 15:17:53
Post Tools
Uruk wrote on 10/20/09 at 11:06:48:

You should test two formulas to compute Pi.
First is 1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7... and multiply by 4.
Second is (16/5^1 - 4/239^1)/1 - (16/5^3 - 4/239^3)/3 + (16/5^5 - 4/239^5)/5...

Run the first on a super cluster and the second on the 386 of your grandmother.
Who you think will win? Should be an eye-opener.

Van Wijngaarden isnt it? I think he thought that one up in the 50s.
But I think you will be amazed by the outcome of the test (I would be quite interested if it is possible to perform).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3277
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #115 - 10/20/09 at 12:08:21
Post Tools
Don't know much about hardware, but to return to human talent vs practice, I did a literature search after my last post. Google Scholar can be quite addictive when your university library gives access to all those articles! Smiley

K. Anders Ericsson and his collegues published an article doubting the existence of giftedness and innate talent ("beyond height and body size" as they say) in the journal High Ability Studies, Volume 18, Issue 1, 2007. The entire 115-page issue is devoted to this article and critical responses to it.

Referring to Mozart and other musical prodigies, they write: 

"Even biographies of very eminent individuals reveal that these individuals engaged in immense amounts of practice and their technique developed over time. In a review of musical prodigies, Lehmann (1997) noted that all had a live-in teacher, which would ensure that each of them had access to specialized instruction and encouragement to engage in the amount of practice required to maintain superior levels of performance." (p. 31). 

As an aside it's well-known that Mozart's brilliant composed music didn't spring entirely from his own imagination; all the elements are there in the music of his mentors and main influences Leopold Mozart, Myslivecek (and via him the Italian baroque), Johann Christian Bach, and Haydn. 

In fact the violinist Sarah Chang is mentioned by one of the critics as a better example of a gifted prodigy than Mozart. Ericsson et al. can only respond by lamenting that her rapid progress as a child was not carefully documented. And sticking stubbornly to the old "10-year rule" of practice needed for international standard: "Notably, Sarah continued to improve, but was only awarded a prize for adult music performance when she was 16 years old, well over a decade after her start of training with the violin." (p. 107). 
The debate continues!

Regarding chess skill, practice and talent, http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/Proceedings/2008/pdfs/p823.pdf is a neat one-page summary by Gobet on recent findings.

I found Grabner, Stern and Neubauer (2007) interesting. In a study of players rated between 1300 and 2400 they found that all players above 2000 had verbal and numerical IQ scores of at least 85-90, while players above 2200 had at least 110-115. But this looks to be the highest threshold; the highest-rated players did not have systematically higher IQs than mere masters. 

So to become a titled player you'd better have a verbal and numerical IQ above 115, but once you do, practice and motivation are all that matters. The reason "verbal and numerical" is specified, is that the third subscale "figural" (visual) IQ was surprisingly not related to rating at all!

In a multiple regression analysis, Chess-related performance motivation, age entering a chess club and number of tournament games were the three strongest factors predicting playing strength. So practice and motivation rule, but it's good to get an early start. Only one personality trait was significantly related to playing strength: Emotion expression control, that is, the ability to maintan a poker face.

I'm tempted to criticize the authors for not including anyone higher than 2387 (not a very gifted level), but seeing that they decided to do their study in Austria, I have some sympathy with their predicament. Smiley

There are also interesting studies by Bilalic et al. from 2007 on intelligence and personality in chess-playing children, but I think I'll stop now!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uruk
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 351
Joined: 02/03/09
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #114 - 10/20/09 at 11:06:48
Post Tools
Willempie wrote on 10/20/09 at 09:01:01:

There are indeed quite some developments with regards to algorithms, which could be considered revolutionary, yet when there were un-revulotionary developments in chips it had a much bigger impact on solution times. 


I cannot agree.

Take an algorithm solving in linear time when the old method was quadratic.
Even for a small problem of 1000 inputs (could be particle positions, pressure values, flow speeds etc.)
the linear algorithm brings a factor 1000, which accounts for 15 years progress in Moore's law.
And think real life problems involve more like 10^5 inputs.

I repeat it's not optimization, it's brand new algorithms, using powerful mathematical ideas.

You should test two formulas to compute Pi.
First is 1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7... and multiply by 4.
Second is (16/5^1 - 4/239^1)/1 - (16/5^3 - 4/239^3)/3 + (16/5^5 - 4/239^5)/5...

Run the first on a super cluster and the second on the 386 of your grandmother.
Who you think will win? Should be an eye-opener.

Anyway onto the topic, hardware differences between humans is smaller
than between 80s & current computers (except those mental disorders).
Knowledge on the other hand progresses, in chess and everywhere.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #113 - 10/20/09 at 09:01:01
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/19/09 at 23:23:17:
Quote:
In scientific computing, progress in algorithms has easily outpaced Moore's law.


Quote:
I dont disagree with any of that, yet it pales in comparison with the strides made in the hardware


Umm, aren't these two statements at odds with each other?

No not really. The advances made in biomechanics are also outpacing that of cars, yet I dont think Bolt will ever outrun Schumi in a Fiat.

There are indeed quite some developments with regards to algorithms, which could be considered revolutionary, yet when there were un-revulotionary developments in chips it had a much bigger impact on solution times. 
To give a historical example: You could optimise all you want to the algorithms used by Nasa with the Apollo program, they wouldnt get much better. However when you run the stuff on your own PC....
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #112 - 10/19/09 at 23:23:17
Post Tools
Quote:
In scientific computing, progress in algorithms has easily outpaced Moore's law.


Quote:
I dont disagree with any of that, yet it pales in comparison with the strides made in the hardware


Umm, aren't these two statements at odds with each other?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #111 - 10/19/09 at 22:49:51
Post Tools
Uruk wrote on 10/19/09 at 21:54:19:
Willempie, I kinda couldn't disagree more.

In scientific computing, progress in algorithms has easily outpaced Moore's law.

Revolutionary ideas like Fast Fourier Transform, Fast Multipole Method
have allowed the treatment of problems that were simply out of reach.

Solving giant systems of equations becomes faster by the day
thanks to continued breakthroughs by numerical analysts.

I don't think chess programming is different in that respect.
Rajlich has obviously found top secret tricks that take Rybka on a whole new level.
Fritz is just trashed, it's not a matter of databases.
I remind you DB analysed 200 million positions per second; and still a laptop on Rybka plays better.

Going completely OT now:
I dont disagree with any of that, yet it pales in comparison with the strides made in the hardware. It is not just the amount of bits and bytes, it is the way they are handled, how the machinery works etc. Chips have made huge progress for example. Eg DB could analyse 200 million positions per second, but that merely meant it "saw" those positions and gave a direct evaluation, a laptop could do exactly the same if it could run DB.
And you can say what you want, but all the methods you name would have been utterly useless 40 years ago and prolly 10 years ago as well (I am being optimistic  suspect 5 years ago is closer to the mark) as the hardware couldnt have dealt with it or very slow. You can also see a reverse trend in that programmers tend to program far less efficient nowadays as the speed loss is compensated by better hardware, as illustrated by the numerous internet applications.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uruk
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 351
Joined: 02/03/09
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #110 - 10/19/09 at 21:54:19
Post Tools
Willempie, I kinda couldn't disagree more.

In scientific computing, progress in algorithms has easily outpaced Moore's law.

Revolutionary ideas like Fast Fourier Transform, Fast Multipole Method
have allowed the treatment of problems that were simply out of reach.

Solving giant systems of equations becomes faster by the day
thanks to continued breakthroughs by numerical analysts.

I don't think chess programming is different in that respect.
Rajlich has obviously found top secret tricks that take Rybka on a whole new level.
Fritz is just trashed, it's not a matter of databases.
I remind you DB analysed 200 million positions per second; and still a laptop on Rybka plays better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Openings for adult class players
Reply #109 - 10/19/09 at 20:31:38
Post Tools
The discussion over intellectual pursuits and whether "talent" exists, or not, is interesting.

As far as athletic competitions, "talent" exists in the form of muscle fiber disposition, CNS innervation of motor units, and biomechanical advantages. 

I'm not sure there's any indicators nearly as reliable with the intellectual pursuits.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 18
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo