Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav? (Read 19692 times)
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #25 - 11/15/09 at 12:03:39
Post Tools
You should be able to, it was covered in a past update.

It's definitely of theoretical interest to white players that are frustrated that the Bayonet is kind of...meh theoretically right now, and since 9. Nd2 has yet to get an improvement over, I think it was, Van Wely - Kramnik, 2008 (could be wrong on the player - it occurred in the 9...a5 with ...Bd7 variation).

I think there's going to be a boom of popularity for 9. Ne1 in the near future. There's a terrific amount of fertile ground, and we've already seen 10. f3/11. g4 get a lot of play recently. There's also a thread here discussing an important line of 9. Ne1 here, and Kozul's Gambit hasn't been fleshed out that much, either.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Templare2
Full Member
***
Offline


Mess with the best, die
like the rest

Posts: 146
Joined: 08/23/06
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #24 - 11/15/09 at 11:54:59
Post Tools
BPaulsen wrote on 11/11/09 at 15:31:33:
 
That would be one particular line, and also the variation seen in Ivanchuk - Cheparinov, 2008. Ivanchuk's novelty on move 25 poses black theoretical problems.



Can I find this game in the Chesspub Game Archive?
  

"Forza e onore!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #23 - 11/12/09 at 15:30:08
Post Tools
Me too.

But this whole thread should be moved to General Chess.  Moderator?
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1846
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #22 - 11/12/09 at 13:21:23
Post Tools
TN wrote on 11/12/09 at 08:41:50:
gramsci wrote on 11/12/09 at 07:38:36:
What I mean is in the Najdorf you may lose because you are playing with black, but it is theoretically sound, nobody doubts, and gives you a funny, rich game. Against 1.d4 I haven't been able to find something similar. Give a hand please!


In that instance, I suggest the Chebanenko Slav and the Budapest Gambit (the latter is in fact entirely sound although White achieves += in the critical lines).


I'd dispute the richness of the Budapest Gambit in White's most common tries. To me it just seems like an opening where Black is likely to end up slightly worse but solid, waiting to see if White can make something of his slight advantage.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alluren
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 33
Joined: 04/21/08
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #21 - 11/12/09 at 11:20:10
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/12/09 at 07:38:36:
What I mean is in the Najdorf you may lose because you are playing with black, but it is theoretically sound, nobody doubts, and gives you a funny, rich game. Against 1.d4 I haven't been able to find something similar. Give a hand please!


Easy: look at strong players who plays the najdorf against 1.e4. What do they play against 1.d4 ? The grunfeld !
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #20 - 11/12/09 at 08:41:50
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/12/09 at 07:38:36:
What I mean is in the Najdorf you may lose because you are playing with black, but it is theoretically sound, nobody doubts, and gives you a funny, rich game. Against 1.d4 I haven't been able to find something similar. Give a hand please!


In that instance, I suggest the Chebanenko Slav and the Budapest Gambit (the latter is in fact entirely sound although White achieves += in the critical lines).
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #19 - 11/12/09 at 07:38:36
Post Tools
What I mean is in the Najdorf you may lose because you are playing with black, but it is theoretically sound, nobody doubts, and gives you a funny, rich game. Against 1.d4 I haven't been able to find something similar. Give a hand please!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #18 - 11/12/09 at 07:27:31
Post Tools
I've been checking Nimzo/Bogo/QID games and they may be sonund but don't give you a rich, funny, attacking game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
smrex13
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 112
Location: Ashland
Joined: 06/03/06
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #17 - 11/12/09 at 06:31:17
Post Tools
I realize that we're in the King's Indian group, but since we're already discussing openings like the Dutch, Benoni, Semi-Slav, etc., I just wanted to express my surprise that no one has mentioned the Nimzo/Bogo/QID complex.  There is no exchange variation (as in the Slav move order) and no variation where white gets a significant initiative (as in the Bayonet Attack).  And (almost) every position is strategically interesting and instructive.  I personally think that the Nimzo/QID is the best defense against 1.d4, but I'm not as strong as many of the other posters here, so I respectfully defer to their expertise. 

Best,
Scott
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #16 - 11/12/09 at 02:04:08
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 12:57:59:
As I have no time to study both, do you think the Semi-Slav is a good option for an ataking player?. Thanks.

I would also say the Leningrad with 7...Qe8. Even in ELO 2500+ level Black has had decent results. So if it is dubious indeed even strong players find it hard to prove it in practice. Check the games by Malaniuk and Gurevich, the latter with both colours.
Anyhow, the Dutch is the most aggressive non-gambit response to 1.d4.

If your repertoire as White is in dire straits you can play the Leningrad with 7.Qe1 as well. I know a KID-adept who uses it as back-up.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #15 - 11/12/09 at 01:57:01
Post Tools
Me too, brother.  But linkspringer, I don't have such a low opinion of the Leningrad as you.  I think it's dicey, but dynamic.  I played it for a while, and I won't say I won all my games, but I won my share, nobody blew me off the board.

There's a "Good Boy, Bad Boy" thing in chess.  Want to be a good boy?  Play the Slav or the Nimzo.  Want to be a bad boy?  Play the Modern Benoni or the Leningrad.  I don't know who does better, the good boys or the bad, but I think it's more fun to be a bad boy.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #14 - 11/12/09 at 01:43:18
Post Tools
linksspringer wrote on 11/11/09 at 23:52:55:
Markovich wrote on 11/11/09 at 20:15:24:
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 16:30:45:
In other words, against 1.d4 there is some defence theoretically sound  that gives you a "rich play"?


Oh, and you should maybe consider the Leningrad, since there Black actually does get to attack sometimes.  But it's borderline in the soundness department.


In 1997, I picked up a book called "Leningrad Dutch: Strategy and Tactics" that was a really depressing read from Black's point of view: all main lines left Black struggling...
Quite recently I had cause to look into Leningrad Dutch theory again, from White's point of view. To my 'dismay', it looked like Black is in pretty good shape again! Lots of interesting improvements in all the main lines. Even the ...Nc6 line is alive.
The Leningrad may be borderline for the 2700+ club, but it seems below that it is sound enough for many titled players looking for rich, active play.  Wink


I wish I could remember the quote exactly, but Tigran Petrosian once said something to the effect (when referring to studying openings), "As white always equal, as black always worse."

It's been so, so true for me in studying anything.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
linksspringer
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 376
Joined: 09/25/07
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #13 - 11/11/09 at 23:52:55
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 11/11/09 at 20:15:24:
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 16:30:45:
In other words, against 1.d4 there is some defence theoretically sound  that gives you a "rich play"?


Oh, and you should maybe consider the Leningrad, since there Black actually does get to attack sometimes.  But it's borderline in the soundness department.


In 1997, I picked up a book called "Leningrad Dutch: Strategy and Tactics" that was a really depressing read from Black's point of view: all main lines left Black struggling...
Quite recently I had cause to look into Leningrad Dutch theory again, from White's point of view. To my 'dismay', it looked like Black is in pretty good shape again! Lots of interesting improvements in all the main lines. Even the ...Nc6 line is alive.
The Leningrad may be borderline for the 2700+ club, but it seems below that it is sound enough for many titled players looking for rich, active play.  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #12 - 11/11/09 at 20:15:24
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 16:30:45:
In other words, against 1.d4 there is some defence theoretically sound  that gives you a "rich play"?


The KID, the Gruenfeld and the Semi-Slav all spring to mind.  The Modern Benoni and the Benko give "rich play," but there are those who would dispute their soundness.  Oh, and you should maybe consider the Leningrad, since there Black actually does get to attack sometimes.  But it's borderline in the soundness department.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #11 - 11/11/09 at 16:30:45
Post Tools
In other words, against 1.d4 there is some defence theoretically sound  that gives you a "rich play"?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo