Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav? (Read 20099 times)
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #10 - 11/11/09 at 16:09:01
Post Tools
As always it´s largely a matter of taste. There is no reason to abandon the KID if you like the resulting positions. Since the KID is quite a flexible opening there are always possibilities to work around recent theoretical problems.

Furthermore I find it much easier to generate interesting play vs. the d-pawn specials with a KID-setup.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #9 - 11/11/09 at 16:06:47
Post Tools
I think that attacking chances are a big luxury for Black, not only in the systems we've been discussing.  As we all know, even in the KID, there are many lines that White can play that offer Black scant chances of developing a routine attack.  The most enterprising defenses offer Black "rich play."  But they don't necessarily offer an attack.

If you MUST attack I feel sorry for you, but I would recommend you play the Stonewall Dutch and use the old method of ...Qe8, ...Qh5, ...Kh8, ...Rg8 and so forth.  Or play the Hennig-Scharra Gambit, or the Albin.  That will work well enough at the club level, but not in the league that BPaulsen and many others here play in.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #8 - 11/11/09 at 15:58:49
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 11/11/09 at 15:51:02:
Ivanchuk's line against Cheparinov certainly poses some problems, but Black can play the ...Na6 lines, or 11...Kh8, or even just straight up find an improvement, in the KID there's always room for fixing lines somewhere.


7...Na6 and 11...Kh8 aren't without their theoretical issues, too. However, the thread starter was talking about the Bayonet, so I assumed he was referring to 7...Nc6.

Obviously theory will continue evolving, problems will be solved, and new ones will crop up.

I'm not saying the KID is bad or anything, just stating what I believe is the possible reason it's not as popular among the elites as the sharp Semi-Slavs.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1849
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #7 - 11/11/09 at 15:51:02
Post Tools
Ivanchuk's line against Cheparinov certainly poses some problems, but Black can play the ...Na6 lines, or 11...Kh8, or even just straight up find an improvement, in the KID there's always room for fixing lines somewhere. 

Also, I also preferred to play against the London, Torre, Tromp, etc....when I haven't committed to ...d5 yet. I feel like it frustrates London, Torre, and Stonewallers to know that I haven't given up the e5-square yet.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #6 - 11/11/09 at 15:31:33
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 15:22:13:
Which is the problematic variation in the Mar de Plata? 
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Be2
d6 6. Nf3 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1
Nd7 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. c5
g5 14. Rc1 Ng6 15. Nb5, maybe?
By the way, don't you think that d-pawn specials and other "anti" lines are easier to play in the Semi-Slav than in the KID?


That would be one particular line, and also the variation seen in Ivanchuk - Cheparinov, 2008. Ivanchuk's novelty on move 25 poses black theoretical problems.

1. d4 d5 does make it a lot easier to face a lot of the 1. d4 specials.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #5 - 11/11/09 at 15:22:13
Post Tools
Which is the problematic variation in the Mar de Plata? 
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Be2
d6 6. Nf3 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1
Nd7 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. c5
g5 14. Rc1 Ng6 15. Nb5, maybe?
By the way, don't you think that d-pawn specials and other "anti" lines are easier to play in the Semi-Slav than in the KID?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #4 - 11/11/09 at 15:03:42
Post Tools
gramsci wrote on 11/11/09 at 14:58:46:
So if the Bayonet Attack is not currently as dangerous as it used to be, why top level players who left KID (Polgar, Shirov, Gelfand...) don't play it again letting the Semi-Slav becomes a sort of standard against 1.d4 as the Sicilian is against 1e4.?
I apreciate your advices. Thanks.


Nobody knows for sure but them.

Maybe at the highest level the theoretical stock of the Semi-Slav is just better at the moment.

It's not like the Bayonet is the only variation that has white posing theoretical problems to the KID - there's also stuff in the Mar del Plata (9. Ne1), and Fianchetto that I'm aware of.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #3 - 11/11/09 at 14:58:46
Post Tools
So if the Bayonet Attack is not currently as dangerous as it used to be, why top level players who left KID (Polgar, Shirov, Gelfand...) don't play it again letting the Semi-Slav becomes a sort of standard against 1.d4 as the Sicilian is against 1e4.?
I apreciate your advices. Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1849
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #2 - 11/11/09 at 14:51:16
Post Tools
Also, if you really want attacking chances in a 1. d4 opening as Black, the Semi-Slav doesn't seem like a great choice. There is a difference between obtaining complicated, tactically difficult chances for both sides and obtaining attacking chances. In the KID, in a lot of lines, you obtain attacking chances. In the Semi-Slav, especially in the Bg5 lines, it's certainly White who's targeting the king.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
Reply #1 - 11/11/09 at 13:15:24
Post Tools
I was under the impression the Bayonet has been mostly defanged, particulary in the 12...Kh8 variation (9. b4 Nh5 10. Re1 f5 11. Ng5 Nf6 12. f3 Kh8), so there's not much of a reason to hide from it. Against 13. Ne6 Radjabov's 14...Re8!? seems sufficient (14...Nc6 is also interesting, but 14...Nh5 seems to be good for white based on Cheparinov-Radjabov), and I'm not aware if white has anything after 13. Rb1.

Aside from that, both offer extremely rich play. 
 
I would consider the Semi-Slav to be ambitious, much like the KID, especially with some of the tactics that can come up in critical variations. However, I'd also say that theoretical knowledge possibly plays a bigger role in the Semi-Slav than the KID. With the KID the ideas matter more, whereas with the Semi-Slav a slight slip up comes at a higher cost.
« Last Edit: 11/11/09 at 14:19:46 by BPaulsen »  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Attacking vs. 1.d4: KID or Semi-Slav?
11/11/09 at 12:57:59
Post Tools
Hi. I play Najdorf and Ruy Lopez but I do not know what the hell to play against 1.d4. I used to play KID, but I'm thinking to give it up, mostly because of the Bayonet Attack. As I have no time to study both, do you think the Semi-Slav is a good option for an ataking player?. Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo