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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Global Warming: CRU & Copenhagen (Read 99424 times)
Stigma
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #9 - 12/07/09 at 19:24:55
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Willempie wrote on 12/07/09 at 19:05:11:
What disturbed me most, was not some of the stuff people are yelling about right now (like the one you mention or the alleged doctoring of temperatures), but the atmosphere which comes from the whole lot. These arent scientists doing independent research, but scientists with an agenda doing research. You would expect this sphere at research funded by Philip Morris, but not at such a center. I found it particularly ironic that a guy who is described as a nutter is taken far more seriously by them than they would let know.


This really goes to the heart of the philosophy of science. My gold standard is the Popperian ideal of the disinterested scientist setting up hypotheses and trying to refute them. But of course Kuhn and Lakatos have shown that scientists are all too human: They become attached to their pet theories and the reputations they have built on them, and often try to find more support for them instead of directly pitting rival hypotheses against each other.

This makes it all the more important for data and knowledge to be public. If they are, science as a whole can over time be self-correcting even though individual scientists are not.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Willempie
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #8 - 12/07/09 at 19:05:11
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Stigma wrote on 12/07/09 at 15:27:12:
To return to topic, of what little I've read what I found most disturbing in this is the idea of "private" data that people (Phil Jones / the CRU) use for publicly funded research but are unwilling to share with colleagues and critics. It's similar to the horrible idea spreading from the USA of patents on life.

Data should be openly available on request, this is a main barrier against cheating and absolutely fundamental for the credibility of the scientific community as a whole. If you can't/won't share your data, you shouldn't publish anything based on them either. Scientific knowledge is by definition replicable.

I see that some climate researchers (Schlesinger etc.) maintain that the three other major research centres, two in the US and one in Japan, still have a similar surface temperature curve to the CRU, so even if there has been some monkey business at East Anglia that doesn't necessarily incriminate the whole field. Anyway I don't have nearly enough knowledge of the field to evalute the science.

What disturbed me most, was not some of the stuff people are yelling about right now (like the one you mention or the alleged doctoring of temperatures), but the atmosphere which comes from the whole lot. These arent scientists doing independent research, but scientists with an agenda doing research. You would expect this sphere at research funded by Philip Morris, but not at such a center. I found it particularly ironic that a guy who is described as a nutter is taken far more seriously by them than they would let know.
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At least, let's await the independent investigation before hanging anyone.

What?? No hanging???? Angry

Really, I dont find anything in these emails to hang anyone. I do find that my distrust of independent research has hit another low, though.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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belaji
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #7 - 12/07/09 at 18:52:59
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Stigma wrote on 12/07/09 at 15:27:12:
To return to topic, of what little I've read what I found most disturbing in this is the idea of "private" data that people (Phil Jones / the CRU) use for publicly funded research but are unwilling to share with colleagues and critics. It's similar to the horrible idea spreading from the USA of patents on life.

Data should be openly available on request, this is a main barrier against cheating and absolutely fundamental for the credibility of the scientific community as a whole. If you can't/won't share your data, you shouldn't publish anything based on them either. Scientific knowledge is by definition replicable.

I see that some climate researchers (Schlesinger etc.) maintain that the three other major research centres, two in the US and one in Japan, still have a similar surface temperature curve to the CRU, so even if there has been some monkey business at East Anglia that doesn't necessarily incriminate the whole field. Anyway I don't have nearly enough knowledge of the field to evalute the science.

At least, let's await the independent investigation before hanging anyone.


Agreed.
  
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Stigma
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #6 - 12/07/09 at 15:27:12
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To return to topic, of what little I've read what I found most disturbing in this is the idea of "private" data that people (Phil Jones / the CRU) use for publicly funded research but are unwilling to share with colleagues and critics. It's similar to the horrible idea spreading from the USA of patents on life.

Data should be openly available on request, this is a main barrier against cheating and absolutely fundamental for the credibility of the scientific community as a whole. If you can't/won't share your data, you shouldn't publish anything based on them either. Scientific knowledge is by definition replicable.

I see that some climate researchers (Schlesinger etc.) maintain that the three other major research centres, two in the US and one in Japan, still have a similar surface temperature curve to the CRU, so even if there has been some monkey business at East Anglia that doesn't necessarily incriminate the whole field. Anyway I don't have nearly enough knowledge of the field to evalute the science.

At least, let's await the independent investigation before hanging anyone.
« Last Edit: 12/07/09 at 16:37:32 by Stigma »  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Dink Heckler
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #5 - 12/07/09 at 14:25:27
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But you've emphatically put down your marker in the other thread, and now here. There's nothing further to be gained by calling people names.
  

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Antillian
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #4 - 12/07/09 at 12:01:31
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Much ado about nothing I think. The fact that the Piltdown man was a hoax did not disproof evolution. And this does not rank close to that.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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belaji
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #3 - 12/05/09 at 23:07:03
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You decide:

Phil Jones, Dec 3, 2008:

    About 2 months ago I deleted loads of emails, so have very little – if anything at all. 

Phil Jones, Nov 24, 2009 Guardian

    We’ve not deleted any emails or data here at CRU. 
  
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belaji
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #2 - 12/05/09 at 16:15:14
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"Apply a Very Artificial correction for decline!!"

This appears in computer code from CRU!!

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/04/climategate-the-smoking-code/
  
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Willempie
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Re: CRU Hack
Reply #1 - 11/22/09 at 22:04:50
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Already some pretty emails have been published...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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belaji
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Global Warming: CRU & Copenhagen
11/22/09 at 06:09:35
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Any thoughts about this?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparen...
 
Edited:
Title of Thread changed to represent broader topic.
 
~SF December 18, 2009
« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 16:36:31 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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