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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Gambits (Read 7553 times)
JonathanB
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Re: Gambits
Reply #17 - 12/13/09 at 11:19:09
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Does Adams' play against Kramnik in yesterday's game at the London Chess Classic count as a gambit?

Does feel right to call it that to me - but he did sacrifice a pawn in the opening.
  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #16 - 12/13/09 at 10:16:05
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There is obviously a big difference if White or Black plays the gambit. Playing the white pieces nearly every gambit looks playable - you complicate the position and if Black finds the right way, the position may be equal. If you are on the black side of the board things are completely different: playing gambits means you risk losing the game - one real sound afford may be the Marshall Gambit trying to prove White's move c3 is just a waste of time. But if you look at top-games you see that Black very often is simply fighting for equality in a slightly worse endgame (btw - the ...Nf6 Schliemann variation leads to the same result - no attack for Black, but compensation in the endgame in a fight for a draw). 

I don't practise the Benko, but respectfully think that it is an attempt to "freeze" the position on a positional basis - another draw attempt but no more.
  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #15 - 12/13/09 at 09:55:00
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A playable gambit line for black in the Catalan:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 dxc4 7.Ne5 Nc6 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxc6 Qe8 10.Nxe7+ Qxe7 11.Qa4 c5 

Black gets nice compensation for the pawn.

  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #14 - 11/29/09 at 21:49:15
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Just two others from the Ruy (limited to lines taht are actually played by GM's):
-The Ng5 Karpov line in the open (I think one of the reasons the open sees so little action). I daresay it has been played more at a Wch than both Marshalls.
-The Schliemann seems to be unrefuted as GM's give it the occasional punt
  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #13 - 11/28/09 at 22:07:28
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Other gambits that are generally considered correct:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4,
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.c4 c6 (or 3...e6)
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4
1.d4 f5 2.e4
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 d5 4.Qa4 Bd7
1.e4 e6 2.b3 d5 3.Bb2 dxe4 4.Nc3
1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 Nf6

There are also borderline ones that can be argued either way, like the KG or Albin.  Btw, the Najdorf Poisoned Pawn could well belong in this category as well as it has gone through phases where it has been considered dubious.
  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #12 - 11/28/09 at 21:47:12
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What I would like to know: why do so many people, including Pavlovic, want to make strong general statements on gambits? Gambit play is just one opening strategy, nothing more, nothing less. Is this an emotional thing or something?
  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #11 - 11/28/09 at 21:35:21
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GeneM wrote on 11/28/09 at 19:54:53:
.
Stigma wrote on 11/28/09 at 06:20:01:
Perhaps these days we have to look at gambits that start a bit later than the usual examples to find the most correct ones.

Good point Stigma.

Also, seems like every time someone proposes a cool new opening that had been forgotten to history, it is a gambit --- Or more accurately it foolishly loses a pawn for a tiny dubious positional advantage.

There are no good "openings" left to be undiscovered, unless you count novelties in move-pair 14.
Instead players can do what Kasparov did with the Scotch --- bone up on a mediocre opening that few grandmasters have studied or seen recently, and ride the surprise for a few months.

Topalov kinda does this same strategy --- better to be more knowledgeable than your opponent about a mediocre opening than to be equally knowledgeable about a stronger opening.
.


Topalov plays fairly mainline openings in my opinion. Benoni is about as dubious as it gets for him. He does however have a history of opening novelties which after a closer look are not objectivily that good but ussually are nearly impossible to solve over the board.
  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #10 - 11/28/09 at 21:34:52
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I find Pavlovic' remark amazing. Stigma already mentioned a few gambits with a fully sound reputation, even on the highest levels.
We should not draw conclusions too soon. Since 25 years or so 4.Qc2 against the NID is more popular than 4.e3. Nobody in his right mind will claim that 4.e3 is "not correct". So why the KG does receive that label is beyond me.
Another (eternal) question is which openings as White proved enough winning chances. From this point of view it seems to me that neither the KG nor the Rubinstein Variation vs. the NID is entirely sufficient on the highest level.
So I am afraid that HgMan's questions from his initial post cannot really be sensibly answered. If I really have to make a general statement it would be something like this. It seems to me that sound gambits for White on the highest level have a shorter lifetime because they peter out in drawish positions more quickly. At the other hand, if a gambit for Black proves to be sound all white players begin to avoid it. Fine examples are the Najdorf Poisoned Pawn and the Winawer Countergambit (3.Nc3 e5 in the Slav Complex).
I predict the same will happen to the gambit variations TalJechin was referring to.
  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #9 - 11/28/09 at 21:12:35
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TalJechin wrote on 11/28/09 at 20:43:38:
HgMan wrote on 11/28/09 at 01:32:21:
I've been reading through Milos Pavlovic's book, Fighting the Ruy Lopez, and I was struck with a comment he made in the introduction.  After crediting Frank Marshall with the authorship of the Marshall Attack and the Marshall Gambit (Semi-Slav), Pavlovic claims that "these are arguably the only real gambits in chess which are recognized as correct, and have stood the test of time."


Aren't there lots of gambits in the Catalan, which are almost all considered correct?

My impression is that gambits are becoming more common on the top levels. The difference being that now it's gambit variations not openings.


Nicely put.  That's the distinction I maybe ought to have made.  Having said that, White very frequently recoups his pawn in many of those Catalan lines in fairly short order.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Gambits
Reply #8 - 11/28/09 at 20:43:38
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HgMan wrote on 11/28/09 at 01:32:21:
I've been reading through Milos Pavlovic's book, Fighting the Ruy Lopez, and I was struck with a comment he made in the introduction.  After crediting Frank Marshall with the authorship of the Marshall Attack and the Marshall Gambit (Semi-Slav), Pavlovic claims that "these are arguably the only real gambits in chess which are recognized as correct, and have stood the test of time."


Aren't there lots of gambits in the Catalan, which are almost all considered correct?

My impression is that gambits are becoming more common on the top levels. The difference being that now it's gambit variations not openings.
  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #7 - 11/28/09 at 20:27:27
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Take a look at the Benko threads.  It seems that Black is on the brink of extinction in several lines.  I don't see it as extremely tactical, rather, it's an incredibly deep strategic gambit. 

But now, white has several good options against it, including the 8.b3 line.   

I think Black is better off looking for other sharp gambits such as those mentioned above.
  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #6 - 11/28/09 at 20:19:20
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What do you say about the Volga-Benko Gambit 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 with clear strategic points (undermine white's d-pawn, open queenside for Black's pieces) and very tactical.
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: Gambits
Reply #5 - 11/28/09 at 19:54:53
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.
Stigma wrote on 11/28/09 at 06:20:01:
Perhaps these days we have to look at gambits that start a bit later than the usual examples to find the most correct ones.

Good point Stigma.

Also, seems like every time someone proposes a cool new opening that had been forgotten to history, it is a gambit --- Or more accurately it foolishly loses a pawn for a tiny dubious positional advantage.

There are no good "openings" left to be undiscovered, unless you count novelties in move-pair 14.
Instead players can do what Kasparov did with the Scotch --- bone up on a mediocre opening that few grandmasters have studied or seen recently, and ride the surprise for a few months.

Topalov kinda does this same strategy --- better to be more knowledgeable than your opponent about a mediocre opening than to be equally knowledgeable about a stronger opening.
.
  

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Re: Gambits
Reply #4 - 11/28/09 at 19:46:24
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The Benko.

  
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Re: Gambits
Reply #3 - 11/28/09 at 08:32:44
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Further examples of fully sound/critical gambits occured to me while taking a nap:

- The Noteboom (White side)
- The Najdorf Poisoned Pawn
- The Cambridge Springs main line where White lets black take a pawn on c3 (recommended by Schandorff)
- The Scheveningen, Perenyi Attack piece sacrifice
- Judging from recent results, possibly the Nimzo-Indian Vitolinsh Gambit (Black)
  

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