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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Starting Out: Coaching (Read 11323 times)
Jupp53
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #15 - 12/08/09 at 09:31:07
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Something about mental training.

Repetition: As pointed to above it is most important to reach the place where the trainee is first.

Changes come all by themself when the trainee wants to do something for it.

Ask yourself which hint can be worked through by the trainee. The most destructive hints are the correct ones which are too difficult to understand. The second most destructive ones are the too easy to understand. The wrong ones follow on place three. (That's why tactics is an excellent hint. People self-adjust to the level they need.)


Internet chess must not be crap. 45/45 games can teach a lot. But otb fight with peers does the best for motivation. You described the problems. It's not your task to solve this. Young men find their way.   Wink
  

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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #14 - 12/08/09 at 06:56:19
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Stigma wrote on 12/08/09 at 03:24:08:
Certainly the player/coach-me of today would hate the opening "repertoire" of old beginner-me of 12 years ago and try to change it! I don't know if beginner-me would have listened though... Smiley

The trouble with dictating openings is that selecting one's own openings gives people a sense of individuality and creativity. Take that away and some will lose motivation for chess. On the other hand, as a coach if you think the student plays totally the wrong openings he needs to get better, you can't just keep quiet about it.

I currently tend towads a compromise: Give the student a choice, but rig the choice so that in reality all the options are close to the optimal playing style (or the position types the student needs exposure to).

Ď've also found that showing games by famous players in an opening can be very motivating. "Look at all these marvellous Fischer games against the Najdorf!" is a lot more effective than "Play the Sozin because you're not strong enough to try the more sophisticated main lines".


you would be a perfect example of breaking my #2. Your strong bias for your own openings makes you think they are the only openings. Much more, you miss the obvious that opening study below master level is best done on a person's own time anyways as it is a waste of precious time with the coach.
  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #13 - 12/08/09 at 05:42:55
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I thought I will jump in and offer my 2 cents worth. The junior in question seems quite close to my son's playing strength, 1400 Elo, if Kylemeister's conversion is accurate.

My son's opening repertoire has largely stabilised, but deviating from Markovich's ideal. (Unfortunately he does not like the 2 Knights and yes, I know, the question is why....???). I had to think of what next to do with his training. He still gets a diet of tactics (CT-ART), Endgame (Silman's Complete Endgame Course, Karsten Muller;s Endgame DVDs and moving on to Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual next and with a bit of Polgar's engame exercises), playing through GM games from his opening repertoire (games collected from a database).

He has an hour of coaching with a player of 2100 Elo strength. She and I discussed what to do in that hour. I think because of the brevity of the time and because it is only an hour a week, and because the above things can be done by my son at home, we have decided to focus on activities where the coach's obvious strength becomes an asset: 2100 Elo playing strength.

For this term, the coach and I have agreed that she and my son will work through Vukovic's Art of Attacking Chess. Of course the main benefit is learning to attack which is important for a junior. But also, the coach is able to analyse some positions a little deeper with my son, thereby training and enhancing the skill of chess calculation and analysis and position evaluation.

Similarly, I believe choosing a chess hero and working through the games (preferably using a source with lots of good annotations) will also facilitate similar learning. I think it is harder for the coach (and hard work) but ultimately you are teaching chess by showing chess calculations, analysis, ideas, etc.

If you work in terms of blocks of time, say 10 weeks per block, then you could begin, eg, with Vukovic, then games collection, then endgame collection and so on and perhaps swing back in spiralling cycle.

I remember reading Agdestein's book on Carlsen (Wonder Boy) (memory is a bit vague since I read it in a bookshop!), Carlsen spent a fair bit of time in coaching playing and analysing through games with his coach at the time (an IM but forgotten the name). Of course Agdestein also mentioned that Carlsen basically devoured Emms, black 1 e4 repertoire book on his own.

I think the imperative here is time. You only have an hour a week. Most effective use of the time is actually to "show" chess by playing through GM games, analysing, calculating, strategical ideas, tactical motifs ... The main thing is that you are able to impart your chess knowledge, culture, history and facilitate the learning of calculation, analysis.

To change the opening repertoire at this stage is going to be counter productive. Yes, it may be that the repertoire will have to change but you have to consider how to motivate the junior to change. I humbly suggest that repertoire change should only come later when you "know" your student much better, not only in chessic sense but also his personality and character.

Supporting argument: If at 1400 level, openings do not matter, then it is "safe" to leave the opening repertoire alone and work on the chess (as explained above), Once the kid begin to improve (1700-1800), you can then introduce more open games variety of openings. Again, the consensus on this Forum seems to be that a player should only really have a serious repertoire when he/she is around 2200 and looking at an IM title. So the kid will still have time to "learn" open game openings.

Yes, there is a downside in that the kid is still playing openings leading to closed positions etc and that learning chess should follow the biological principle, from simple to complex. However, we need to be flexible. In an ideal world, where the kid is presented to us as a tabula rasa, yes, Markovich's dictum should be followed. But, ...
  

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Stigma
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #12 - 12/08/09 at 03:24:08
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Certainly the player/coach-me of today would hate the opening "repertoire" of old beginner-me of 12 years ago and try to change it! I don't know if beginner-me would have listened though... Smiley

The trouble with dictating openings is that selecting one's own openings gives people a sense of individuality and creativity. Take that away and some will lose motivation for chess. On the other hand, as a coach if you think the student plays totally the wrong openings he needs to get better, you can't just keep quiet about it.

I currently tend towads a compromise: Give the student a choice, but rig the choice so that in reality all the options are close to the optimal playing style (or the position types the student needs exposure to).

Ď've also found that showing games by famous players in an opening can be very motivating. "Look at all these marvellous Fischer games against the Najdorf!" is a lot more effective than "Play the Sozin because you're not strong enough to try the more sophisticated main lines".
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #11 - 12/08/09 at 03:10:34
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All I have to say... is as a student... a coach gets thrown out on their behind asap if they 1) refuse to look at my games or pretend they did when they didn't 2) Tries to change my openings to theirs or hyper focus our time on opening work...

after that... I expect the coach to just simply go with their strengths in teaching whatever that is... i'm sure I will profit from their wealth of knowledge.
  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #10 - 12/08/09 at 02:45:25
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I don't know the player, so I don't know how much I can advise.  No, openings aren't all that important, but the kind of positions a player plays into are important.  So no at least no Frenches or King's Indians, for crying out loud.  I would prefer the Two Knights sooner or later, as well.

A big deal in teaching people is to go to where they are, and don't expect them to come to you.  And give them credit for having a brain.  Don't assume that because you are the appointed teacher you are on a superior plane.  Just look them in the eye and talk to them they way you would talk to anyone.  Offer up as much of your own, honest take on chess as you can, including both specific positions and your life with the game, without trying to boil it down.  People are good at picking up on a teacher's genuine interest and enthusiasm.  But if you have a student who won't work hard enough, don't waste your time trying to motivate him.  Just tell him it's not worth your time.

Never coach during a game.  You will fatally undermine your student's confidence.  Give him your best game, tear his head off, and tell him afterwards what happened.  For the same reason, never let a student take back a move.

The fight is all in chess, so if he's a fighter, he may have the makings of a player.  If he's not, he doesn't.  I don't think that Internet chess does anything to prepare anyone for the fight.  Only OTB experience can do that.  So I would get this kid a bunch of OTB competition ASAP, and see what he's made of.  Or at least get him exposed to some real chess players; the Internet is crap.
  

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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #9 - 12/07/09 at 22:57:56
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There's an evident problem with the idea of picking his brain regarding what he was planning, what other moves he considered etc. in games played at an average of something like 10 seconds per move.  Maybe a common problem these days.  One prospective student of mine didn't have any recent tournament games, but proposed using his ICC blitz games as lesson material.  

I think there must be something wrong/missing with this picture of the kid's strength vis-a-vis his playing experience.
  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #8 - 12/07/09 at 21:54:56
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if you have only 1 hour a week i think the surest bet is to go over his loss or losses played that week.

pick his brain re: why did he make certain decisions?  ask tons of questions.  what's the plan?  did you consider this other move?  no lecturing, use socratic dialogue to gently lead him to the correct conclusions for himself. 

this is the best way to teach anything, IMO.  GL.

as a side note i would ask him to consider playing Blackmar Diemer every single game as white in blitz only.  please note i would suggest BDG only for over-cautious players to break out of their doldrums and develop some tactical sharpness and caveman bloodlust.  it teaches you to hang on for your life when down a pawn (which is always).   Grin
Some of the "Solid" cautious players seem to panic and collapse when they lose a pawn...  i'm no great fan of BDG but it is easier to get it on the board than other gambits.  just my op.
  

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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #7 - 12/07/09 at 18:48:35
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kylemeister wrote on 12/07/09 at 17:27:55:
1750 on that website is probably, what, a 1400 player?  Talk of e.g. "showing him complicated strategic battles" would seem a bit misplaced.

Openings like the Semi-Slav and the Berlin sort of put me in mind of when I was playing the Najdorf as a D-player.


I have no idea of the significance of chess.com ratings. Having played him OTB in a casual game, he is definably better than 1400. I would judge him to be a class B player. 
  

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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #6 - 12/07/09 at 18:29:43
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Without seeing him play, its impossible to give anything but superficial advice.  But I would suggest starting each hour with a tactics exercise or two, and then using the rest of the hour to go over a well-annotated game.  At this level, you want something clear-cut, where the plans and ideas are obvious.  A book like Chernev's 62 Most Instructive Games  provides excellent teaching material, as each game illustrates a basic theme or principle.  Everyone always says tactics, tactics, tactis and there is a lot of truth to that, but its also important to know what to do.  Also, good for him to have a chess hero to emulate.  Perhaps encourage him to pick one player from classical times whose games he might be able to understand and maybe one current player who he can root for in the here and now.   

  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #5 - 12/07/09 at 17:27:55
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1750 on that website is probably, what, a 1400 player?  Talk of e.g. "showing him complicated strategic battles" would seem a bit misplaced.

Openings like the Semi-Slav and the Berlin sort of put me in mind of when I was playing the Najdorf as a D-player.
  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #4 - 12/07/09 at 17:14:46
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I have some coaching experience, both one on one and in group type situations. I would say up to 2000 the most important things are tactics, common mating patterns, simple endings, and understanding the positional ideas, plans, and typical tactics behind the various positions and structures he's going to run into his opening repertoire.

I think if he has limited resources then he should stick with his repertoire, even if it favors closed positions, just because it would be a lot of work to change it. I'd recommend that he pick one out of the 3 openings he plays as Black against e4 and really dig into it. Probably the French or the Sicilian is the most worth it. Once you get him playing one Sicilian, he might be inclined to learn others and expand his knowledge about different structures that way. I'd leave the Berlin out for now, especially since he's going to need some tactical positions to sink his teeth into. 

So get him a tactics book (I like the Lein or Reinfeld one for beginners), and help him out with studying typical middlegame positions, and teach him some simple pawn and rook endings, all the necessary mates, etc....and just go from there. Have him join the 45 45 ICC League or try to play longer games online and have him look them over, then go over them with him. Give him homework, so he's busy while you're not there too. Most importantly, for kids, get him excited about the game. After my first lesson with my first coach, I was excited to do more after he left, and I couldn't wait for the next one! Grin
  
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #3 - 12/07/09 at 17:13:05
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I agree with the previous post: I'd say one thing at a time - why throw all his repertoire out of the window? If you are going to teach him sth new re openings, e.g. close a hole in his repertoire, then choose sth aggressive or a gambit, otherwise..

Some ideas:
1) Analyse a few of his most important games so to understand his advantages & disadvantages.
2) Pick up a few complicated strategic battles (not necessarily openings he plays) and do some sessions on evaluation of the position. You can also 
3) Teach him imbalances (e.g. positional exchange sacrifices).
4) Tactics & standard endgames can be easily taught through leaflets / exercises (no need to consume valuable coaching time).
5) On the other hand endgame strategy is interesting (and it sounds possible he has some gaps there).
Optional:
6) If you decide to do some opening sessions after all, pick up a few positional struggles to show the concepts, and avoid detailed variations.
7) If you see him lacking middlegame skills you can also work on specific themes like the isolani, minority attacks (a bit advanced topic), or simply attack & defence.

my 2c

N.B.: Better first hear what he is anxious to learn rather than go ahead and impose a topic you are confident you can teach..
  

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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #2 - 12/07/09 at 17:11:39
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I also would add that Markovich and others will be of more help but my humble question is: is Opening really important. He seam to be able to investigate that himself.
Isn't it more important with Tactics, Endgame and eventually middle game Stratey?
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: Starting Out: Coaching
Reply #1 - 12/07/09 at 15:02:43
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Well, I'm sure that Markovich and others who have far more experience than me in this arena will chime in, but I certainly think that at his stage of develoment he should be playing open positions (for all the reasons that many here have stated in other threads).  I would have him play 1 e4 as white, 1...e5 and the Tarrasch defense as black.  If he gets into OTB tournaments against good players and tries to play sophisticated lines like you have listed, I suspect he will get his hat handed to him.  One question you really need to ask him is why he dislikes open positions? 
  
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