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Normal Topic Exchange the queen's knight (Read 4573 times)
Net Warrior
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #9 - 01/13/10 at 17:40:15
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I wonder how often you play and at what time controls?  It's hard to give advice without knowing who you are facing.  My impression is that you need to learn the basics.  Since Fine is too advanced for you, I recommend an old book by Horowitz,  "How to Think Ahead in Chess".  When I was starting out and knew next to nothing about openings, a friend showed me his copy of this book and it was a real eye opener.  I didn't play those opening for more that a year or so but I learned a heck of a lot about how to think about and study the openings.  Good luck.    
  

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Markovich
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #8 - 01/11/10 at 20:05:57
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Well, if I were 1500~, the Exchange Spanish and the Rossolimo would not be my very first choice of systems.  I doubt if the OP's game is up to playing those.  He should play instead the Scotch or the Italian and either the Smith-Morra or the Open Sicilian with the KB on e2.  But to see why exchanging the bishop sometimes make sense, he might take a look at the lines of the Old Steinitz Defense to the Spanish, where it's useful for gaining a tempo and avoiding more comprehensive exchanges.
  

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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #7 - 01/11/10 at 18:19:22
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msiipola wrote on 01/09/10 at 07:38:17:
In several openings you exchange the queens knight for your kings bishop. The opponent (often) gets a double pawn on the c-file, but the other player lose the bishop pair.

As beginner I have always felt such moves are bad.

But those moves are often one of the main lines, so I understand I'm wrong.

But should I, despite that, play moves which I feel is bad, even if the theory says something else?

If you feel a move is bad, don't play it.  There are better things to spend your time on than trying to comprehend counterintuitive moves.
  

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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #6 - 01/11/10 at 10:59:53
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I agree with MNb that you should not exclude from your games and/or studies any moves that may 'feel' bad to you because you cannot understand their meaning as of yet. Of course when you play you cannot experiment all the time, but still you need to occasionaly try out new staff. More importantly it is important to try to understand why some standard moves or plans are played (imo even when it comes to such questions like yours which has no clear answer even among GMs).

I'll give you an example arising from the Spanish Opening (exchange variation):
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. BxNc6
White's main trump is the superior pawn structure: If he/she manages to play d4 before Black plays ...c5 with a bind at d4, there will follow ...exd4, N or Q or R recaptures at d4 and White has a 'healthy' pawn majority on the K-side, the d-file is open to both players, and on the Q-side the 3 White pawns can hold on their own the 4 Black pawns. In conlcusion, if we reach a pawn endgame White will most probably win!
Now Black's trump: He/she has the Bishop pair and if the position opens up a bit he/she can use it to create tactical threats. Moreover, the endgame can be held if Black exchanges the dark-squared Bishop for a Knight and we have opposite-coloured Bishops.
Now White's sophisticated strategy is as follows: Black will try to upset the issue so that we won't reach an endgame, but in doing so he/she may upset things too much and create weaknesses around the King, so what if I don't hasten to reach the endgame and I keep the Queens on in order to attack these weaknesses? And so forth, both armies keep on refining their strategies based on the 2 fundamental imbalances:
- Black's spoiled pawn structure; and
- White missing the light-squared Bishop
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #5 - 01/10/10 at 08:18:32
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MNb wrote on 01/09/10 at 21:37:28:
On your level this is not the most important subject though. I already know what Markovich will say (and I largely agree): study tactics and strive for open positions, eg by playing 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 as White.


Yes, and lastly after several years of trying to improve with little success, I'm going to put my opening manuals back to the shelf. I think they have done more harm, then good to me.

Instead of your opening suggestion, I have tried the Scotch, but only in a few games yet.
  
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #4 - 01/09/10 at 21:37:28
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msiipola wrote on 01/09/10 at 13:35:54:
So going back to my question, if I don't understand why is it better to exchange a bishop for a knight, I should not do it?

You should try to learn about it instead of avoiding it. That is the key to improvement. Btw the question when exactly it is favourable to exchange and when not is something even top-GM's don't totally agree on.
On your level this is not the most important subject though. I already know what Markovich will say (and I largely agree): study tactics and strive for open positions, eg by playing 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 as White.
  

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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #3 - 01/09/10 at 14:10:16
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At last chess is still a game which means playing with the pieces and pawns and look what happens. Forget about knowledge and remember the goal of the game: "mate the opponent king"!

Does it help you to know where to put your pieces, which to exchange and what pawn formation you need to gain your "mating" goal? I dont think so with 1500 - so exhaust your possibilities at your level and get to know more to reach another level. But if you start playing for goals on level 2000 or above which you cannot understand at the moment you cant reach your 1500 goals and will lose the fun of the game.

Just keep it simple - get your pieces out, look out for the opponents king and get him (first  Wink). If you dont understand what a B vs N exchange and the following pawn formation can do for your goal, then dont play it. There are more steps before that to be solved to get better (e.g. - What can I do if I cant mate the opponents king? (Answer: perhaps play for a material advantage - then get a new queen - and then mate him))
  
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #2 - 01/09/10 at 13:35:54
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Yes I know. I have very little opening knowledge, but on my current level (<1500) I don't want read too much opening theory.

During the years I have spent many hours on trying to memorize opening moves, without understand the reason for those. Most of this time have been totally wasted.

I have both "Ideas behind the behind the chess openings" and FCO. But I must confess, most of the text is over my head.

The only practical use I have from those books, and other opening manuals, is to see what the first 5-6 "correct" moves are.

So going back to my question, if I don't understand why is it better to exchange a bishop for a knight, I should not do it?
  
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TN
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Re: Exchange the queen's knight
Reply #1 - 01/09/10 at 08:45:57
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msiipola wrote on 01/09/10 at 07:38:17:
In several openings you exchange the queens knight for your kings bishop. The opponent (often) gets a double pawn on the c-file, but the other player lose the bishop pair.

As beginner I have always felt such moves are bad.

But those moves are often one the main lines of a opening, so understand I'm wrong.

But should despite that, play moves which I fell is bad, even if the theory says something else?


The most important thing is not to know the theory, but to understand the theory and know the typical ideas, plans, themes and tactics. As I have said before, it is better to have a slightly worse position you understand well than a slightly better position where you have no idea of what you are doing.

If you don't understand when the exchange of the king's bishop for the queen's knight (usually via. Bb5xc6 or Bb4xc3), don't play openings where knowledge of this is a prerequisite. Better still, buy a book such as 'Understanding the Chess Openings' or 'Fundamental Chess Openings' to learn when to and when not to exchange with Bb5xc6 or Bb4xc3 since this is a common theme in several openings.
  

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msiipola
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Exchange the queen's knight
01/09/10 at 07:38:17
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In several openings you exchange the queens knight for your kings bishop. The opponent (often) gets a double pawn on the c-file, but the other player lose the bishop pair.

As beginner I have always felt such moves are bad.

But those moves are often one of the main lines, so I understand I'm wrong.

But should I, despite that, play moves which I feel is bad, even if the theory says something else?
« Last Edit: 01/09/10 at 12:54:11 by msiipola »  
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