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Poll closed Question: Who will win Wijk aan Zee?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Carlsen    
  22 (44.9%)
Anand    
  4 (8.2%)
Kramnik    
  9 (18.4%)
Ivanchuk    
  4 (8.2%)
Leko    
  1 (2.0%)
Shirov    
  1 (2.0%)
Karjakin    
  2 (4.1%)
Dominguez    
  0 (0.0%)
Nakamura    
  5 (10.2%)
Other    
  1 (2.0%)




Total votes: 49
« Last Modified by: OstapBender on: 01/19/10 at 20:02:31 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll (Read 63225 times)
MNb
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #26 - 01/15/10 at 21:48:48
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TalJechin wrote on 01/15/10 at 16:31:05:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/15/10 at 14:37:31:


Kasparov doesn't really belong in the same company as the previous two.  Yes, he let his hand go of a piece against Polgar, and yes, he complained mightily about Deep Blue.  His role in the break up of FIDE is more problematic, but not really unethical.  I find his chess behavior much more acceptable than the other two.


Kaspy is absolutely no better than the rest, if anything, then worse. Just because we tend to forget with time doesn't make him innocent. 

Some other things I remember about his behaviour are: 1) going up to his hotelroom unsupervised during a round while stil playing, during Wijk or Corus. 2) watching behind the back of other competitors and giggling when he though they played inexactly. 3) in Seville vs Karpov, I've read reports that he put up a kind of pantomime show of exaggerated facial expressions when Karpov blundered.


I completely agree and would like to add the way he broke his word given to Shirov. That's not something I am going to forgive until he compensates the latter financially (remember? Shirov won, got no price money and no match).
I already found Kasparov's behaviour towards Karpov in the 80's bordering to disgusting, especially after the infamous Campomanes intervention.
On the Seville incident - I have seen photo's and a video of Kasparov's facial expressions. In my opinion it was close to an attempt to distract the opponent. Kasparov might have been lucky that there was not much left to be distracted from.

Regarding Korchnoi I have mixed feelings. He had a rough time around 1980, having left his wife and son in the URS, being boycotted by that same URS. This boycot was taken over by most big tournaments. Notable exceptions were Leeuwarden 1977, Linares 1979 and .... Hoogovens, the predecessor of Corus.
Add the influence of a certain Petra Leeuwerik and Kortchnoi's paranoia becomes not justifiable but understandable.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #25 - 01/15/10 at 18:26:43
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Well, since the tournament hasn't started yet, I see nothing wrong with general comments in this thread.  Once the tnmt has started, I may splice off-topic comments.
  
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trw
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #24 - 01/15/10 at 18:02:44
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Kasparov is well known for his facial expressions. I read the entire website you plugged for Karpov-Korchnoi and there is not a single mention of a cheating incident. I think you use the word cheating against its very definition. It means to seek outside help ie either another grandmaster or computer during the game. So the false accusation of cheating would be to indicate your opponent did this when you have no evidence to support it. I consider false accusations detrimental to game, the image of the game and the players that being unfairly treated (in the aforementioned cases this is Kramnik and Kurnsov). Anyways sorry I diverted the topic more but even more sorry the person that brought up mamedjarov did so in the first place. 

I hope Carlsen, Kramnik, Anand, Nakamura, Shirov or Ivanchuk wins but honestly I expect its a battle between Kramnik & Carlsen with the rest as wild cards. It is nice to have so many good players to root for but mostly I just want to see good chess!

« Last Edit: 01/15/10 at 19:51:17 by trw »  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #23 - 01/15/10 at 16:51:41
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Carlsen
Anand
Kramnik
Ivanchuk
Leko
Shirov
Karjakin
Dominguez
Nakamura
Other

Hmm, it was difficult to choose one. Carlsen? Been on a tear lately, bound to slow down. Anand? Might be planning another Bilbao. Kramnik? Maybe, but tends not to win these 14 player RRs when +4 or +5 may be needed to win. Ivanchuk? Could win it all or finish in last. Leko? Been very unimpressive of late. Shirov? See "Ivanchuk" above. Karjakin? I could believe it, but he won last year and two years in a row would seem improbable. Dominguez? Not with such an elite crowd, though didn't he get close last year? Nakamura? Somehow I think the World Team will have taken too much out of him. A Dutch player? History would suggest otherwise!

So with everything being equal, I voted for Carlsen!  Tongue
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #22 - 01/15/10 at 16:31:05
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/15/10 at 14:37:31:


Kasparov doesn't really belong in the same company as the previous two.  Yes, he let his hand go of a piece against Polgar, and yes, he complained mightily about Deep Blue.  His role in the break up of FIDE is more problematic, but not really unethical.  I find his chess behavior much more acceptable than the other two.


Kaspy is absolutely no better than the rest, if anything, then worse. Just because we tend to forget with time doesn't make him innocent. 

Some other things I remember about his behaviour are: 1) going up to his hotelroom unsupervised during a round while stil playing, during Wijk or Corus. 2) watching behind the back of other competitors and giggling when he though they played inexactly. 3) in Seville vs Karpov, I've read reports that he put up a kind of pantomime show of exaggerated facial expressions when Karpov blundered.
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #21 - 01/15/10 at 14:37:31
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Topalov's chess can be absolutely beautiful and I emulate some of his opening ideas.  But he seems like a human weasil and not just because of toiletgate.   

Topalov was suspected of using computers himself at San Luis because he suddenly played at another level (and other reasons). In that context, his accusations at the Elista World Championships appear more, not less cynical.   

Korchnoi is another unsavory character. His fighting spirit and independence should have made him the darling of the western world.  But his derision of every opponent was old in the 1980s. The Karpov-Korchnoi antics were so ridiculous that when they were portrayed in a movie (Dangerous Moves), they seemed surreal and a weak point of the plot!

When Korchnoi played in the Melody Amber tournament, he kept making false moves in the Blindfold games. Witnesses said it was to make sure he knew where his opponents' pieces were.

Kasparov doesn't really belong in the same company as the previous two.  Yes, he let his hand go of a piece against Polgar, and yes, he complained mightily about Deep Blue.  His role in the break up of FIDE is more problematic, but not really unethical.  I find his chess behavior much more acceptable than the other two.
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #20 - 01/15/10 at 12:45:35
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Most people let the way they react to certain transgressions depends on how they feel toward the person that is making them. Toiletgate was absolutely disgracefull and still I'm sympathetic towards Topalov. 

  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #19 - 01/15/10 at 11:21:42
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chk wrote on 01/15/10 at 09:59:15:


Well, Kasparov still mentions this incident as though he believes he was cheated in his book "How life imitates chess"..


In that case, what goes around comes around! Grin

http://www.controltheweb.com/polgar/
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #18 - 01/15/10 at 09:59:15
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trw wrote on 01/15/10 at 07:03:15:
I am unaware of Korchnoi karpov incident before my time and apparently not widely talked about. Either way plenty of other reasons to not respect Korchnoi. Of course the Kasparov incident was not "cheating" and has been blown out of proportions not to mention Kasparov has apologized for it on numerous occasions unlike Topalov and Mamedajarov. If they apologized then I would forget about their incidents too.


Well, Kasparov still mentions this incident as though he believes he was cheated in his book "How life imitates chess"..
  

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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #17 - 01/15/10 at 09:27:33
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I do honestly believe Mamedyarov believed at that moment his opponent cheated. I don't think he was right but I don't think that, like Topalov, tried to get at his opponent.

Perhaps I'm not that ethical but in other "sports" I see far worse behavior then Mamedyarov (and even Topalov). For me it about the games not the players.
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #16 - 01/15/10 at 09:07:07
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The candidate match between Kortchnoi and Spassky in 74 is another funny match, where Boris showed what he learned from Fischer two years earlier.
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #15 - 01/15/10 at 08:59:13
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it's all in the yogurt Smiley

http://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/78kk$$01.htm

More widely (and funny) you won't find in chess  Grin


trw wrote on 01/15/10 at 07:03:15:
I am unaware of Korchnoi karpov incident before my time and apparently not widely talked about. Either way plenty of other reasons to not respect Korchnoi. Of course the Kasparov incident was not "cheating" and has been blown out of proportions not to mention Kasparov has apologized for it on numerous occasions unlike Topalov and Mamedajarov. If they apologized then I would forget about their incidents too.

  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #14 - 01/15/10 at 07:03:15
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I am unaware of Korchnoi karpov incident before my time and apparently not widely talked about. Either way plenty of other reasons to not respect Korchnoi. Of course the Kasparov incident was not "cheating" and has been blown out of proportions not to mention Kasparov has apologized for it on numerous occasions unlike Topalov and Mamedajarov. If they apologized then I would forget about their incidents too.
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #13 - 01/15/10 at 06:16:54
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trw wrote on 01/15/10 at 06:09:11:
OstapBender wrote on 01/15/10 at 00:21:05:
trw wrote on 01/14/10 at 23:56:46:
Schaakhamster wrote on 01/14/10 at 18:49:56:
I would have loved to see Mamedyarov at Wijk. Alas.



I hope we never see that scum anywhere.

Because of the Aeroflot incident last year, or is this a more generalized dislike?


of course its that incident. I can never respect him for the same reason I can never respect topalov. Bringing up cheating accusations when you have no evidence is disgusting low to resort to just cause you get your butt handed to you.


So you can neither respect Korchnoi (vs Karpov) or Kasparov (vs Deep blue)?
  
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Re: 2010 Wijk aan Zee, Group A Poll
Reply #12 - 01/15/10 at 06:09:11
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OstapBender wrote on 01/15/10 at 00:21:05:
trw wrote on 01/14/10 at 23:56:46:
Schaakhamster wrote on 01/14/10 at 18:49:56:
I would have loved to see Mamedyarov at Wijk. Alas.



I hope we never see that scum anywhere.

Because of the Aeroflot incident last year, or is this a more generalized dislike?


of course its that incident. I can never respect him for the same reason I can never respect topalov. Bringing up cheating accusations when you have no evidence is disgusting low to resort to just cause you get your butt handed to you.
  
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