(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Dutch › The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
(Moderators: CraigEvans, proustiskeen, Hadron)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD (Read 93399 times)
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #80 - 10/14/12 at 21:18:21
Post Tools
A great result - Gelfand clearly not used to that sort of chess Wink

Actually some of the other games in that match were so horribly one sided that Simon did rather well to stay concentrated on his game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paddy
God Member
*****
Offline


The truth will out!

Posts: 966
Location: Manchester
Joined: 01/10/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #79 - 10/14/12 at 17:49:04
Post Tools
Today Simon Williams won a scrappy game as Black in the Classical Dutch against... Boris Gelfand!

http://www.ecc2012-chesseilat.com
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carld
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/06/06
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #78 - 09/10/12 at 17:47:17
Post Tools
chk wrote on 09/10/12 at 12:35:40:
iirc ghenghisclown is correct.


Maybe, I'd have to watch it again to be sure, and I'm not up for that.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chk
God Member
*****
Offline


a pawn is a pawn

Posts: 1063
Location: Athens
Joined: 10/26/06
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #77 - 09/10/12 at 12:35:40
Post Tools
iirc ghenghisclown is correct.
  
"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ghenghisclown
God Member
*****
Offline


Pedicare Vestri Latin

Posts: 1022
Location: HollyWeird
Joined: 07/19/06
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #76 - 09/10/12 at 07:57:32
Post Tools
Wasn't "I no longer play the old faithful?"  (a5 I think is old faithful - he now prefers Ne4).
  
"Experience is a dim lamp, which only lights the one who bears it."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carld
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/06/06
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #75 - 09/02/12 at 20:05:32
Post Tools
I really enjoyed this DVD up until the point where he says "... and this line is why I no longer play the Dutch.

What the...?

I stopped watching and put the DVD away. I don't remember, at this point, which line he was talking about.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #74 - 08/29/12 at 09:48:40
Post Tools
heavypieces wrote on 08/29/12 at 04:11:56:
The e-book that consumers of 'The Killer Dutch' were promised - seemingly an age ago - is still nowhere in sight and one wonders if Williams has missed the boat given that 7... Ne4 is the focus of the recent Andrew Martin DVD 'The ABC of the classical dutch'. 

ErictheRed wrote on 08/23/12 at 16:38:03:

Still, I was under the impression from a year or two back that 7...Ne4?! 8.Nxe4! was just good for White.  Nothing on Williams' DVD convinced me otherwise; if I remember correctly, he advocated some obscure pawn sac that looked much more like White being up a clear pawn than Black having any kind of compensation to me.


Martin spreads his analysis of 8. Nxe4 over two games: Pinter-Trang 2010 and Lock-Williams 2011. Ironically but unsurprisingly, Williams's games feature quite heavily on the DVD.

I don't want to repeat big chunks of Martin's analysis here - after all, he makes a living from selling this stuff - but I will  say that he claims that the line simply leads to unclear play, with Black having a decent game. 

He also says that after [7...Ne4 8.Nxe4 fxe4 9.Ne1 d5 10.f3] he can't see what's wrong with 10...exf3, although he doesn't analyse this move, instead sticking to 10...dxc4.


Williams does offer a couple of his own games with 7...Ne4 from the French league as videos on his blog. The new way for Black did look rather interesting when I looked at them at the beginning of the year. 

Personally, I stopped playing the Iljin due to White's ubiquitous and solid Qc2 set-up. Two draws in two long games vs roughly my own rating isn't all that bad, but imo there are other main systems in the Dutch that offer more interesting play.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
heavypieces
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 25
Joined: 07/25/11
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #73 - 08/29/12 at 04:11:56
Post Tools
The e-book that consumers of 'The Killer Dutch' were promised - seemingly an age ago - is still nowhere in sight and one wonders if Williams has missed the boat given that 7... Ne4 is the focus of the recent Andrew Martin DVD 'The ABC of the classical dutch'. 

ErictheRed wrote on 08/23/12 at 16:38:03:

Still, I was under the impression from a year or two back that 7...Ne4?! 8.Nxe4! was just good for White.  Nothing on Williams' DVD convinced me otherwise; if I remember correctly, he advocated some obscure pawn sac that looked much more like White being up a clear pawn than Black having any kind of compensation to me.


Martin spreads his analysis of 8. Nxe4 over two games: Pinter-Trang 2010 and Lock-Williams 2011. Ironically but unsurprisingly, Williams's games feature quite heavily on the DVD.

I don't want to repeat big chunks of Martin's analysis here - after all, he makes a living from selling this stuff - but I will  say that he claims that the line simply leads to unclear play, with Black having a decent game. 

He also says that after [7...Ne4 8.Nxe4 fxe4 9.Ne1 d5 10.f3] he can't see what's wrong with 10...exf3, although he doesn't analyse this move, instead sticking to 10...dxc4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3277
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #72 - 08/23/12 at 21:53:33
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 08/23/12 at 16:38:03:
There's some good stuff on his blog.  9...d5 might be playable as it tries to make the Rook on e1 and Queen on d3 misplaced, but I suspect White can still manage a += Stonewall type position here.  I'll take a look at this stuff later.


The one suboptimal piece in Black's position in this Stonewall is Be7 (compared to the Modern Stonewall, at least). ...a5 is not a bad move to have in, whether Black plays for ...b6, ...Ba6 or just uses the pawn to slow White down on the queenside.

I would like to investigate this a bit myself, surely Black's position must be playable and "refutation" is too strong a word? IIRC Williams mentioned 9...d5 way back in "Play the Classical Dutch", so he's certainly aware of it.

I'm even thinking of playing 9...d5 against 9.Qc2 (in the same line) since I'm not entirely happy with the current main line there for Black. Though Qc2 likely less of a concession than Qd3 for White in a Stonewall structure.
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #71 - 08/23/12 at 16:38:03
Post Tools
There's some good stuff on his blog.  9...d5 might be playable as it tries to make the Rook on e1 and Queen on d3 misplaced, but I suspect White can still manage a += Stonewall type position here.  I'll take a look at this stuff later.

Still, I was under the impression from a year or two back that 7...Ne4?! 8.Nxe4! was just good for White.  Nothing on Williams' DVD convinced me otherwise; if I remember correctly, he advocated some obscure pawn sac that looked much more like White being up a clear pawn than Black having any kind of compensation to me.  Maybe I'll poke around and see if improvements were found for Black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #70 - 08/23/12 at 13:17:24
Post Tools
I'm bumping this thread to point out that Williams has updated part of his DVD on his blog: http://www.gingergm.com/2012/07/30/refutation-of-the-the-old-faithful/

He gives some of the lines discussed in this thread, and his conclusions are similar but the analysis is much more detailed.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1977
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #69 - 12/10/11 at 17:27:40
Post Tools
[quote]9...d5 looks like it should be better for White, but I don't see how exactly. In practice 10.Ne5 c6 11.f3 Nc3 12.bc3 Nd7 has worked out fine for Black, and 10...b6 is an interesting alternative.[/quote]
Looks like a reasonable Stonewall to me. Two of Naumkin's games seem to suggest the plan with Ne5 and f3 mightn't be too fearsome, but what else? I find it hard to believe White can organise b2-b4 advantageously. (Engines tend just to stodge around, which doesn't look too impressive either!) I wonder whether at root Williams mightn't have rejected this not because it's objectively bad, but because it doesn't suit his style.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1977
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #68 - 12/10/11 at 15:06:46
Post Tools
Thanks, Atticus. This is a very brief exchange though, and it wouldn't surprise me if the line/reason I gave is stated somewhere else, probably by someone other than Williams. Can't remember where I might have seen it -- in some ChessPub stuff, perhaps?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
atticus
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/09/11
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #67 - 12/10/11 at 14:48:30
Post Tools
@Michael Ayton

The first part of your question was answered by GM Williams here http://www.gingergm.com/forum/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=8
  
National Rating:1971
ELO:2011
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1977
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Ginger GM and the Classical Dutch DVD
Reply #66 - 12/10/11 at 11:10:37
Post Tools
Forgive my ignorance, and for going slightly off-topic, but can someone enlighten me? I was under the impression that what had put Williams off 7 ...a5 had been [b]8 b3 [/b]Ne4 9 Bb2 Nc3 10 Bc3 Qe8 11 Ne1. Am I wrong? And if I'm not, is there in any case anything badly wrong with [8 b3] Na6 9 Bb2 Qe8? -- if so I wasn't aware of it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge