Bibs wrote on 02/04/13 at 00:29:46:


Anyone else have experience with e+ app on iphone?

Ender wrote on 02/19/13 at 01:28:12:


My understanding is that it will be a pdf available from his website. At least to begin with, perhaps published as a physical book at a later date. That's what he wrote on his blog.

Bibs wrote on 02/04/13 at 03:52:55:


I'm just approaching my fifth birthday as a Classical Dutchie.  I've played the defence around 40-50 times in serious games, about half of which have been A96s.

Unlike Williams, I haven't beaten a 2700 with it and I've yet to knock down a former World Championship challenger ... but my elo performance on the Black side of Main Line Classical Dutch positions is something like 200 points higher than my current rating.

I'll be getting the new book too, just as soon as I can get past the security warning.

I don't know that. 
Email Simon Williams at the GingerGm web site. He will surely let you know. 

Good thing about the Dutch Classical, particularly via 1...e6 route is that the theory is narrow. 
You will get ...Ne4 on the board a lot. 
Everyone knows for white: fianchetto, castle, knights out. But then knowledge stops.
Time-effective study for black. 
Study while wearing an orange wig for increased retention.

I ordered from the e+ chess app. No problems here.

I didn't like the e+ app when using on my iphone, but it looks good on the iPad. Really comes into its own in the wider environment. Good space for pages on left and board on right. 

Williams' book - updated, fun!

I assume the ebook can be used on a regular computer too, even though he advertises it for iPads/similar devices?

But currently I'm getting a security warning when I try to go to the site that sells it (eplusbooks.com).

Guys, is there any new source of classical dutch? I mean Williams dvd is outdated a bit, he didn't mention Avrukh line which is (I think) promising for white.

A great result - Gelfand clearly not used to that sort of chess

Actually some of the other games in that match were so horribly one sided that Simon did rather well to stay concentrated on his game.

chk wrote on 09/10/12 at 12:35:40:


Maybe, I'd have to watch it again to be sure, and I'm not up for that.

Wasn't "I no longer play the old faithful?"  (a5 I think is old faithful - he now prefers Ne4).

heavypieces wrote on 08/29/12 at 04:11:56:


Williams does offer a couple of his own games with 7...Ne4 from the French league as videos on his blog. The new way for Black did look rather interesting when I looked at them at the beginning of the year. 

Personally, I stopped playing the Iljin due to White's ubiquitous and solid Qc2 set-up. Two draws in two long games vs roughly my own rating isn't all that bad, but imo there are other main systems in the Dutch that offer more interesting play.

ErictheRed wrote on 08/23/12 at 16:38:03:


The one suboptimal piece in Black's position in this Stonewall is Be7 (compared to the Modern Stonewall, at least). ...a5 is not a bad move to have in, whether Black plays for ...b6, ...Ba6 or just uses the pawn to slow White down on the queenside.

I would like to investigate this a bit myself, surely Black's position must be playable and "refutation" is too strong a word? IIRC Williams mentioned 9...d5 way back in "Play the Classical Dutch", so he's certainly aware of it.

I'm even thinking of playing 9...d5 against 9.Qc2 (in the same line) since I'm not entirely happy with the current main line there for Black. Though Qc2 likely less of a concession than Qd3 for White in a Stonewall structure.

I'm bumping this thread to point out that Williams has updated part of his DVD on his blog: http://www.gingergm.com/2012/07/30/refutation-of-the-the-old-faithful/

He gives some of the lines discussed in this thread, and his conclusions are similar but the analysis is much more detailed.

Thanks, Atticus. This is a very brief exchange though, and it wouldn't surprise me if the line/reason I gave is stated somewhere else, probably by someone other than Williams. Can't remember where I might have seen it -- in some ChessPub stuff, perhaps?

Forgive my ignorance, and for going slightly off-topic, but can someone enlighten me? I was under the impression that what had put Williams off 7 ...a5 had been [b]8 b3 [/b]Ne4 9 Bb2 Nc3 10 Bc3 Qe8 11 Ne1. Am I wrong? And if I'm not, is there in any case anything badly wrong with [8 b3] Na6 9 Bb2 Qe8? -- if so I wasn't aware of it.

heavypieces wrote on 12/08/11 at 06:19:53:


Arrg sorry, I meant of course to write '7...a5', not '7...a4'. I can't modify my earlier post now, so please take this by way of apology, because I made the 'a4' error a few times in that post. Stupid brain!

TN wrote on 12/08/11 at 07:06:01:


Thanks for your interesting suggestions.

9...Nxc3 is the move given by Williams on the DVD, so it's worth noting that we're moving outside the Killer Dutch repertoire with your suggestions: that's no reason to dismiss them though. Perhaps we can 'patch' the Williams repertoire.

9...d5 strikes me as not a bad move, but it produces a stonewall dutch pawn structure and a hole on the e5 square. I guess if people know their stonewall dutch it could be an idea worth trying; trouble is, it's very different from the classical dutch ideas on the DVD, which are based on striving for an e5 break followed by attacking the kingside.

9...Nc6 actually looks much worse than 9...d5 to me. Can't White just retreat the Q to b1, then pick up a pawn? For example after 10.Nxe4 Nb4 11.Qb1 fe 12.Qxe4. I can't see what Black has for the pawn here.

To correct the typo: he means 10. bxNc3 (took me some time to figure out what he was referring to with Qd5+! )

Anyway, I like TN's 2nd suggestion, but frankly I do not see the problem with Black's position after 13. Qd5+ Kh8. It could be that I am still asleep, but can you please enlighten me? 

When I first got the 'Killer Dutch' DVD, I was very impressed. 

I loved the production, Williams is a great presenter, and the opening itself felt like a punchy, fun line. 

I adopted the 'Old faithful' line 7...a4 - the core of the DVD -which Williams claims to have played for 20 years. 

But then I saw that, on Williams's own website, someone posted on his forum a move sequence which showed a huge crack in the very main line that Williams advocates. Even Williams had to agree that this was 'well spotted' (quote) and went on to confess that he now plays the different move 7...Ne4 for this very reason. Williams also said that he would address this issue in his ebook on the Dutch - but that's been a long time coming and I'm still waiting.

I was very disappointed in this development. I find it hard to believe that Williams did not know about this line despite playing the 'Old faithful' for twenty years.

All the posts I'm talking about are still avaliable on his website, the thread is called 'Killer Dutch mainline' in his forum.

Therefore, before you go embracing the Killer Dutch, be warned. The mainline of 7...a4 leads straight to a lost game.

If anyone has any suggestions for bettering Blacks play in this line, I'd love to hear them - I really did like the 7...a4 Dutch.

[Edit]: To save people going to Williams's forum I've cut and pasted the post below. Note that it's as originally posted, typos and all.

"Hi Simon,
I'm studying your video, I have seen it already a few times to understand the basic idea, and now I'm getting a bit more in details.
I have a question on a line you suggest in the DVD and that seems wrong to me  

1 d4 f5
2 Nf3 e6
3 g3 Nf6
4 Bg2 Be7
5 00-00
6 c4 d6
7 Nc3 a5
8 Re1 Ne4 (the old main line)
9 Qd3 Nxc3
10 bxc3 Nc6 (to meet e4 with e5
11 e4 e5
you analysis stops here, but if you go further a couple of moves... White seems much better to me

e.g.
12 dxe5 dxe5 (according to Fritz is the best)
13 Qd5+

Now I'm not even a class A player, so I could be very wrong but I think here white is better !?
Am I wrong?"

[Edit]: To avoid confusion I've changed a typing mistake on White's tenth move, which originally read 'Nxc3' when clearly bxc3 was meant.

There's a lot to watch. I've been watching it over the last few days, and I've still got a ways to go. It's interesting stuff and makes me want to take up playing The Bird again.

GMTonyKosten wrote on 12/04/10 at 03:00:43:



Not at all.  I was just amused to see a quick shot I took on my mobile phone turning up all this time later.

Yeah, that update is a mini-monograph on how to play the "Classical."

Seen it, appreciate it a lot and have started studying it!

This DVD made me decide to stop playing the Classical with Black but it gave me some excellent ideas to use as White! Overall this DVD is very good but i was expecting more improvements over Williams' book. I like the style of presentation and the structure of the DVD and also the honesty of Williams. Also some secondary lines are covered well. I liked it but it didn't inspire me to tell you the truth to make Classical again one of my weapons. But this is just my personal opinion. I will keep an eye over Williams next DVDs and hope they'll have the same quality as this one.

I bought the DVD last Wednesday at London Chess Store and I will enjoy it tomorrow 

Hi all,

In reply to ChessStar; The highest player I have ever beaten in the Classical Dutch was Ivan Sokolov, I think that he was 2685 at the time. That was in the main line, 7...Ne4, he played the very passive 8 Bd2.

That just shows that even top Grandmaster's are not sure how to react. 
I also got a very good position against Shirov in the same line when he played a bad variation, but I threw that game away (I let Shirov sacrifice, not a good idea! )

Thanks for your responses to the DVD, they have all been very positive at the moment. We are planning to do the next one very soon. I will release the title at a later date.

We received the US copy yesterday and have sent it off to be replicated in the US, so it should be ready to buy soon.

Simon, I have a question. Who is the strongest player that you've beaten with the Classical Dutch? I know that I can look this up using various databases etc. etc. but not all the games are published.

Thanks for the clarification Tony! 

A couple of beers coming your way Tony!! 
Any chess questions or other questions about the DVD that prove useful to people, I will try to answer...

CraigEvans wrote on 01/31/10 at 19:17:35:

Obviously I am happy when strong players post here, a little less so when they are just advertising their own books! Still, I think we should leave it and I will try to get some free drinks off the two Simons the next time I see them!

As far as I am concerned, I don't have any problems with advertising a la Simon Williams, as long as the author makes clear that he advertises for him/herself. The way Rudel advertised for his book Zuke'm (or whatever) is much more misleading imo; he acted as if he was an enthusiast student of the book.

Stigma wrote on 01/31/10 at 03:47:34:


Thanks for the info, I'll be going by there next week and pick it up.

I notice that the DVD is now also sold by the London Chess Centre. Maybe that means it will also be available in the US via Chess4Less in due time.

CraigEvans wrote on 01/28/10 at 18:48:36:


Log out and log back in.

Though I am supposed to be the moderator here, for some reason the moderating tools do not appear on the page for me.

Once they do, I shall delete the unauthorised advertisement, as this breaks house rules. Everything else appears fine, and as such will be left intact.

JonathanB wrote on 01/22/10 at 23:31:03:


Hi everyone,

Apologies if I am breaking any posting rules, please delete the post if this is the case - I'm answering a specific post so should be ok I hope. Yes we are a commercial website but we are just starting out and there is also plenty of (we hope) high quality free content available.

Probably the shop was still in development when you tried to order, I only turned it live on Tuesday! In any case should you have any problems, please email Simon W direct via the Contact page on the website. I haven't been made aware of any problems and we have taken a number of successful orders already.

Best wishes,
Simon Ansell (gingergm webmaster)

linksspringer wrote on 01/27/10 at 16:23:40:


Aren't there a lot of threads here that could be labelled 'commercials'? For one thing every time Gambit, Everyman and Quality Chess list a new book in the pipeline, we seem to instantly get a thread about it here. 

And over the years we've had many threads where authors have been answering questions regarding their books - I'm guilty of that myself - and apart from this one, there's a recent thread about Mongoose's new Catalan book...

So deleting this one could start a domino effect if you're consistent - and if you're not consistent it just seems unfair.

Markovich wrote on 01/27/10 at 14:04:57:


He didn't actually start the topic, it just happens to be the first post on page 2. Please don't delete the whole thread, as there is useful information on page 1.

He does give quite a bit on 7...Ne4 8.Nxe4 and considers it a critical line. I think he now has a different reply to to 9.Nd2 d5 10.f3 compared to his 2003 book.

I don't want to simply post all his lines, but if you give me a link to the relevant forum discussion I'd be happy to compare them.

Psycho-Cowboy wrote on 01/23/10 at 12:15:09:


Thanks for the offer Simon.

Ooh, does that mean the signed one I got in Hastings is now a collectors item 

JonathanB wrote on 01/22/10 at 16:56:18:


Quite right. Just shows I should have gone through the whole DVD before I tried to review it! 

In my defence he does seem to have more faith in 7...a5 than the others. I also played this line myself for a few years after Williams' Classical Dutch book came out, so I naturally looked at that part first. From the white side I'm more worried about 7...Qe8, but probably I just need to study it more deeply.

To make amends for my mistake I skipped through the video and made an overview of the chapters and approximate durations:

Introduction and basic strategic ideas 38 mins.

7...a5 55 mins.

7...Qe8 50 mins.

7...Ne4 46 mins.

7...Nc6?! 39 mins.

2. g3 early deviations (7. b4, Nh3 systems, Nd2 systems, 7. b3 etc.) 30 mins.

2. c4 early deviations (e3 systems, Bg5 systems) 55 mins.

Gambits (2. g4, 2. e4, 2. h3) 37 mins.

2. Bg5, 2. Nc3 38 mins.

2. Nf3 e6 3. d5 5 mins.

Conclusion 3 mins.

There are brief strategic overviews at the end of every chapter.

JonathanB wrote on 01/22/10 at 18:59:45:


I must be doing it wrong. Adding this DVD to my cart simply brings up a blank second page. Wop Wahhhh!

PatzerNoster wrote on 01/22/10 at 18:41:00:


Depends what you mean by superficial.  If you're 2400 then your definition is going to be very different to mine.  Also depends perhaps on the variation you're talking about - 4 choices for Black at move 7 after all.

As far as I'm aware there are no main suggestsions for White overlooked completely but then as I mentioned before it's a DVD so you're not going to get a reference work.  There's plenty of analysis in the book that doesn't make it on to the DVD because - obviously - even at 7-8 hours nobody can speak fast enough to be able to do that.

On the upside there are important improvements from games Williams and others have played since his book was published in 2003 (e.g. Ward-Williams in the 7. ... Ne4 line).

I'm not sure what else I can say to you.  I'm not a 2400 so I can't view the DVD through a 2400's eyes.

When / Where can we get this DVD? Is there anywhere to get it now, or do we just have to preorder off the website?

PatzerNoster wrote on 01/22/10 at 17:21:34:


Well you're 300-400 points or more higher rated than me and the people I tend to play so I wouldn't presume to tell you what would be able to help you.  That said. my best bet is that this DVD would be a good introduction from which you'll be able to tell whether you want to investigate further [which I imagine at that level you'll want and need to.  Happily for the likes of me the DVD will be enough].

Is there anybody else of Williams' level who's played the Classical Dutch as long or as frequently as he has?  Certainly not in Britain.  If you want to know about the Classical Dutch I think it's quite a good plan to find out what he's got to say about it.  I'd also agree with the comment earlier saying that Williams presents the material well.



PS: Are there really any 'theory-lite' variations left?

Stigma wrote on 01/22/10 at 00:27:29:


I wasn't sure if he as entirely serious about that ... but he did indeed try it at the recent Hastings tourament.

Thanks for the feedback, it is very helpful!

Has anybody run across any info on Simon Williams' Classical Dutch DVD? If not check his website under gingergm.