Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The future of chess openings (Read 7624 times)
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #14 - 02/03/10 at 13:54:54
Post Tools
I recall reading a piece in Chess Life, back in the 1960s, that the model game of the future would go 1.Na3! Na6! 2.Nh3! Nh6! 3.Nb1!! Nb8!! 4.Ng1!! Ng8!! 1/2-1/2.  However I'm not sure about whether these moves actually deserve all those exclams.  For instance 3...Ng8!? is perhaps more ambitious.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #13 - 02/03/10 at 13:33:20
Post Tools
Alapin's recommendation was (2.Ne2) Bc5 3.f4 d6 4.c3, but the PC has some complaints, so today 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 should be seen as critical. This is "equivalent" to 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3, an interesting attempt to reach certain Open Games and avoid others. In two games Alekhine replied 3...Bc5 4.Nxd4 Nf6, which is the main reason why authors said that 2.d4 gives Black "additional options". In a way they are right, but I don't think that Nf6 is objectively stronger than standard Scotchs after 4...Nc6. - Similarly, I don't claim that 2...Nf6 3.d4 (or 3.f4) wins or something. But 2.Ne2 can definitely be a way to trick Petrov players out of their usual repertoire. If Kaissiber is too inexpensive (or too German), a later SOS has also covered 2.Ne2 in an article. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #12 - 02/03/10 at 12:00:37
Post Tools
After 2.Ne2, is there any reason why 2...Bc5 is worse than 2...Nc6? After 3.d4 ed4 4.Nd4 Black is not forced to transpose to a Scotch with 4...Nc6, 3.f4 d6 isn't any better than 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6, and 3.c3 isn't effective after 3...Nf6. There is the option of playing as in a Vienna Game with 3.g3, but this shouldn't be dangerous for Black.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #11 - 02/03/10 at 11:50:27
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/31/10 at 15:37:30:

In Kaissiber #2 Gerard Welling had written a longer article on Alapin's Opening. That 2...Nc6 is the main line against Alapin's move is not exactly new, Alapin analyzed his 2...Nf6 3.f4! in 1892. Today I'd refine the analysis in a few points, but basically it's still true that 2...Nc6 is best. Alapin was aware that his 2.Ne2 can transpose to the Scotch with best play, and his opinion was shared by other writers of his time. Of course today everybody knows better after spending a few seconds with his blackberry (whatever that is). Mr. A.'s book isn't bad for an 11-old, but I am missing a bibliography.


Very interesting - by this logic the Alapin could be an anti-Petroff system for Scotch players!?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #10 - 02/03/10 at 03:04:15
Post Tools
Conquistador wrote on 01/30/10 at 19:40:19:
What do you think may happen?


Just before the solar system collapses chess will share the same fate as tic-tac-toe.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #9 - 02/02/10 at 10:00:18
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/31/10 at 15:37:30:
Stigma wrote on 01/31/10 at 00:46:01:
Hadron wrote on 01/30/10 at 22:23:04:

I know it is not the politically correct thing to do to disagree with a titled player because…well…he’s a titled player


Politically correct?! Title holders are not gods, you know. The only "correct" way to judge an argument is on its merits. Arguments from authority (putting too much weight on who said something, rather than the substance of what was being said) are very common, but still a basic fallacy. OK, Kramnik's opinion on some chess position would initially carry a lot more weight than mine, but neither are in any way immune to examination and disagreement.

That said, I'm also curious about what could possibly be wrong with 2.Ne2 Nf6, assuming it wasn't all just satire.

In Kaissiber #2 Gerard Welling had written a longer article on Alapin's Opening. That 2...Nc6 is the main line against Alapin's move is not exactly new, Alapin analyzed his 2...Nf6 3.f4! in 1892. Today I'd refine the analysis in a few points, but basically it's still true that 2...Nc6 is best. Alapin was aware that his 2.Ne2 can transpose to the Scotch with best play, and his opinion was shared by other writers of his time. Of course today everybody knows better after spending a few seconds with his blackberry (whatever that is). Mr. A.'s book isn't bad for an 11-old, but I am missing a bibliography.

If in doubt, obfuscate. Alapins Opening can also transpose to the Vienna Opening as well but this really does not answer the question that was asked....
HTH
Angry
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #8 - 01/31/10 at 15:37:30
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 01/31/10 at 00:46:01:
Hadron wrote on 01/30/10 at 22:23:04:

I know it is not the politically correct thing to do to disagree with a titled player because…well…he’s a titled player


Politically correct?! Title holders are not gods, you know. The only "correct" way to judge an argument is on its merits. Arguments from authority (putting too much weight on who said something, rather than the substance of what was being said) are very common, but still a basic fallacy. OK, Kramnik's opinion on some chess position would initially carry a lot more weight than mine, but neither are in any way immune to examination and disagreement.

That said, I'm also curious about what could possibly be wrong with 2.Ne2 Nf6, assuming it wasn't all just satire.

In Kaissiber #2 Gerard Welling had written a longer article on Alapin's Opening. That 2...Nc6 is the main line against Alapin's move is not exactly new, Alapin analyzed his 2...Nf6 3.f4! in 1892. Today I'd refine the analysis in a few points, but basically it's still true that 2...Nc6 is best. Alapin was aware that his 2.Ne2 can transpose to the Scotch with best play, and his opinion was shared by other writers of his time. Of course today everybody knows better after spending a few seconds with his blackberry (whatever that is). Mr. A.'s book isn't bad for an 11-old, but I am missing a bibliography.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #7 - 01/31/10 at 03:31:17
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/30/10 at 20:24:13:
The typical 1.e4 game of the future will go 1.e4 e5 (hoping for the Petrov) 2.Ne2! (avoids the Petrov) Nc6! (best, cf. Kaissiber) 3.d4! exd4 (best) 4.Nxd4 reaching the Scotch. And then the adventurous players will try 4...Qh4, others will play something dry, such as 4...Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.c4 d6 7.c5 with rough equality. 1.d4 is unsound, of course.


Whilst on the subject, I believe that 5.Be3 Qf6 6.c3 Nge7 7.Qd2 will become the new main line of 4...Bc5 by 2018, with 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.Qe2 being the most popular alternative. 

Also, 'The System' is superannuated, since Berliner didn't have access to very strong chess engines or a blackberry when he wrote the book. 'My System' suffers a similar fate, since Nimzowitsch didn't have access to a computer or blackberry when he wrote his book. Wink

Quote:
All we other patzers below 4600+ will play Zilbermints Gambit becasue that is the only one the computer won't understand and playing the Zilbermints Gambit against the computer will totally eat up all its memory and it will go into flames.
 

Unfortunately, even the Zilbermints Gambit doesn't work against the computer, which now has the Anti-Zilbermints_Gambit opening book installed: ...g6/b6/Bb7/Bg7, followed by declining all sacrifices if possible.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #6 - 01/31/10 at 01:09:50
Post Tools
TN, 

I think Mr. A may be sued for copyright infringement.  The System by Hans Berliner looks eerily similar!

Thanks, though.  I needed a chuckle. Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #5 - 01/31/10 at 00:58:54
Post Tools
Win with the Blackberry Attack

Mr. A, who became a Grandmaster recently at the age of 11, takes the developments of modern chess theory over the last 10 years (the rest is unimportant since it was played before his birth) and explains which moves work in the professional chess circuit, and which moves don't. Highly detailed home preparation, hypertheory, technology-assisted philosophy, early draws and convoluted mathematical formulae are all evident here, and Mr. A shows how you can become a stronger player by knowing how your first moves will decide the game. 

The book is written for players of all levels, from those with multi-processor blackberries running Rykba 8, to those who still study chess on the redundant laptop. 
  • Detailed opening trees to guide you through the opening
  • Over 50 complete games
  • Learn secret novelties from the Grandmaster's kitchen


Published January 2020, February 2020

Excerpt:

'Now that we have covered the most important opening developments in the last 10 years, we can move on to finding the penultimate truth in chess. The ultimate truth can't be found under the current capacity of the universe, unfortunately. 

If you want to win as White, play 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.Nf3. Other moves give Black chances of an advantage, e.g. 1.c4 e5 and the parameters of 'c' (centre), 'y' (potential) and 'd' (weakened squares) equal -1x-1x-1, equals -1. Therefore Black is slightly better. 

After 1.e4, all moves other than 1...c5, 1...e5 and 1...g6 lose. For the refutation of 1...e6, see the game Carlsen-Nakamura, 2019. 

...

After 1.d4, don't play 1...Nf6, since after 2.c4 Black is forced to weaken his position. Let's show this through our formula: c = 2, y = 1, and d= -1. What I forgot to mention is that d is actually squared, so 2x1x(-1)^2 = 2. Therefore, Black is already clearly worse and likely to lose. 

Play 1...d5, and then after 2.c4, 2...c6 is forced since 2...e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cd5 gives White a decisive central majority. After 2...c6, 3.Nc3 dc4 has been worked out to a forced draw in the Kramnik-Svidler match of 2013, so 3.Nf3 is the only way to play for a win. 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 and now my blackberry still hasn't worked out whether the position is better for White or equal. '

___

P.S: Jonathon Speelman once joked that the starting position is actually a mutual zugzwang and that Black wins. 
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3277
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #4 - 01/31/10 at 00:46:01
Post Tools
Hadron wrote on 01/30/10 at 22:23:04:

I know it is not the politically correct thing to do to disagree with a titled player because…well…he’s a titled player


Politically correct?! Title holders are not gods, you know. The only "correct" way to judge an argument is on its merits. Arguments from authority (putting too much weight on who said something, rather than the substance of what was being said) are very common, but still a basic fallacy. OK, Kramnik's opinion on some chess position would initially carry a lot more weight than mine, but neither are in any way immune to examination and disagreement.

That said, I'm also curious about what could possibly be wrong with 2.Ne2 Nf6, assuming it wasn't all just satire.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Göran
Senior Member
****
Offline


ChessPublishing is great!

Posts: 454
Location: Sweden
Joined: 02/13/08
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #3 - 01/30/10 at 23:36:20
Post Tools
All high ranked player are totally dependent on the computer and are playing as one themselves. It means they start with any opening and calculating to the end with help of home preparation.

All we other patzers below 4600+ will play Zilbermints Gambit becasue that is the only one the computer won't understand and playing the Zilbermints Gambit against the computer will totally eat up all its memory and it will go into flames.
  

What kind of proof is that?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #2 - 01/30/10 at 22:23:04
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/30/10 at 20:24:13:
The typical 1.e4 game of the future will go 1.e4 e5 (hoping for the Petrov) 2.Ne2! (avoids the Petrov) Nc6! (best, cf. Kaissiber) 3.d4! exd4 (best) 4.Nxd4 reaching the Scotch. And then the adventurous players will try 4...Qh4, others will play something dry, such as 4...Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.c4 d6 7.c5 with rough equality. 1.d4 is unsound, of course.


I know it is not the politically correct thing to do to disagree with a titled player because…well…he’s a titled player but how can you on one hand comment with some conviction on the quality on some Scotch Opening continuations (i.e. 4…Qh4 is for adventurous players) and then on the other hand recommend the 2…Nc6 Is the best against the Alapin ?(1.e4 e5 2.Ne2!). What if White avoids the Scotch (3.d4) and plays more positional with 3.g3 Bc5 4.Bg2 Nf6 5.Nbc3 bringing about the Vienna or even 3.Nbc3 immediately as in Alapin v Chigorin Berlin 1897.  How are these continuances not dry?
Even allowing for a degree of satire in the above comments, I can not see avoiding attempts to take the initiative with 2…Nf6! is any worse
HTH
Angry
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: The future of chess openings
Reply #1 - 01/30/10 at 20:24:13
Post Tools
The typical 1.e4 game of the future will go 1.e4 e5 (hoping for the Petrov) 2.Ne2! (avoids the Petrov) Nc6! (best, cf. Kaissiber) 3.d4! exd4 (best) 4.Nxd4 reaching the Scotch. And then the adventurous players will try 4...Qh4, others will play something dry, such as 4...Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.c4 d6 7.c5 with rough equality. 1.d4 is unsound, of course.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Conquistador
Junior Member
**
Offline


WWAD-What Would Alekhine
Do?

Posts: 53
Joined: 11/29/09
The future of chess openings
01/30/10 at 19:40:19
Post Tools
I saw this question and wondered what we of chesspub thought.

I think one revolution may be the definite conclusion found in the Marshall Gambit in the Ruy Lopez which could help white or black.

Another might be the return of the Italian again with some novelties showing that black does not have adequate compensation for the pawn in the Two Knights Defense after 4.Ng5.  This might shift more popularity to the 3...Bc5 variation where white would need to find an improvement in the Mueller, Rossolimo, or maybe the new Powtow Attack.  Maybe the Evans and Italian Gambits?

Another could be that the Scotch will find its way to the top and have the attention that it deserves.  Would it replace the Ruy Lopez, probably not unless a very strong player can score big wins with it.

Who knows, popularity may shift to the Petrov Defense and white would need to find a improvement there.

The cycle continues...the Bishops Opening may return  Smiley

What do you think may happen?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo