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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox (Read 179245 times)
Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #155 - 06/26/11 at 08:02:16
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Yes but when in July? Smiley
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #154 - 06/26/11 at 07:56:14
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From the everyman site

Declining the Queen's Gambit
Jul 11 EU | Aug 11 US
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #153 - 06/26/11 at 07:49:20
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Approximately when should this book be published?
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #152 - 06/26/11 at 06:40:37
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I personally think 3. ... Nf6 is the most orthodox choice.

Be7 better? Could be, but if so the margin of being better is so small that you got to be 2600+ to make something out of it.

Also choice of openings is dependant on popularity. The dragon was not played for a while because it was "refuted", then Carlsen played it again and hey presto!

Same thing could happen with 3. ... Nf6 I presume.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #151 - 06/26/11 at 05:03:28
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This is why I was asking for more coverage of the 3...Be7 variation in the 1.d4 d5 section.  Black is looking so solid in the Bg5 main lines that I was wondering how best to pose Black problems in the QGD.  Perhaps answering 3...Be7 with 4.cxd5 isn't best either but if not then what?
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #150 - 06/25/11 at 23:32:26
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Stop whining.  It's John's book, not yours.  If you don't like that he doesn't give the slightly theoretically superior 3... Be7 then don't buy it.  You've made your point.  If he has good coverage of the lines he likes better then so what.  It's not like he's ducking out of the major theory like Bologan did with his 11. Bd2 Kh8 in the Mar del Plata King's Indian.

Wait until you have the book in your hands and see his analysis.  There is no need to dog him about choosing a line he likes better.  Ulf Andersson and Lars Bo Hansen have played the line he recommends and the sample he posted looks very interesting.  If you find holes in the books coverage or analysis, think of them as an opportunity to beat opponents blindly following the book for free.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/25/11 at 21:54:02:
The critical test of 3...Nf6 is 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bg5. 

I still vastly prefer White in this position, but there has been quite a bit of work by strong players to shore up Black's defenses. I'm not at all sure that white has a serious theoretical advantage in that QGD exchange. Schandorff has shown that White retains at least as much of an advantage in the 3....Be7 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bf4 lines.

The recent trend has indeed been toward 3...Be7 among +2700 players, but practical results and theory tend to support the argument that there is not much qualitative difference between the two moves.


Schandorff actually showed no advantage against 3... Be7.  The critical line is in a variation on page 31 and he gave an evaluation of unclear.  Black is fine there.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #149 - 06/25/11 at 22:36:31
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:59:46:
@F22: The "problem" is that you are sure that 3...Be7 is best when great specialist aren't! Rowson said somewhere that the better player you are the less sure you get about some chess positions. I had the same strong opinions some years back. My advice: be less sure. Anyway....


When was the last time when 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 was played in a world championship match??
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #148 - 06/25/11 at 22:28:32
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MNb wrote on 06/25/11 at 15:58:38:
F22 wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:03:00:
Which one of the top players today play the old 3. ... Nf6 these days?

Are Ehlvest, Short, Jussupow, Zvjaginsev and Khalifman strong enough for you? Or do you really want to maintain they play deliberately an inferior 3rd move?


After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3

  • Khalifman has 13 games with Black.  Only in 4 of those he has chosen 3. ... Nf6. And the most recent of those games was played in 1999! 
  • Zvjaginsev has 25 games from that position. 13 times he played 3. ... Be7, 6 times he chose 3. ... c6 and only 5 times went for 3. ... Nf6 (also played 3. ... Bb4 once).
  • Ehlvest has 13 games. His first choice is 3. ... Bb4 (5 times), 3. ... Nf6 is played 4 times and 3. ... Be7 comes in third with 2 occurrences.

So from the 5 players you mentioned two actually prefer 3. ... Be7 by a wide margin and Ehlvest's top choice is neither of the moves we are talking about. That leaves Short and Yusupov who do play 3. ... Nf6

But I don't consider any of these players "strong enough" or the type of player you should emulate when it comes to their openings, Here are their World rankings according to FIDE:

Short 55, Zvjaginsev 91, Khalifman 148, Ehlvest 309, Jussupow 379.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #147 - 06/25/11 at 22:12:16
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/25/11 at 21:54:02:
Schandorff has shown that White retains at least as much of an advantage in the 3....Be7 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bf4 lines.


I don't think that one book by one 2500-ish GM advocating a certain repertoire for White can really be said to have shown such a thing.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #146 - 06/25/11 at 21:54:02
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The critical test of 3...Nf6 is 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bg5. 

I still vastly prefer White in this position, but there has been quite a bit of work by strong players to shore up Black's defenses. I'm not at all sure that white has a serious theoretical advantage in that QGD exchange. Schandorff has shown that White retains at least as much of an advantage in the 3....Be7 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bf4 lines.

The recent trend has indeed been toward 3...Be7 among +2700 players, but practical results and theory tend to support the argument that there is not much qualitative difference between the two moves.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #145 - 06/25/11 at 18:31:21
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Whatever the arguments about this variation or that, I welcome a new book on the QGD. Frankly I have been fed up to the teeth with constant coverage (on chesspublishing for example) of Chebanenko Slavs, Merans, Slavs, and various other mixtures. The literature is still missing a decent book on the good old QGD (Jangava is a bit like the telephone book and Sadler a bit too basic and the Socratic dialogue gets annoying) and hopefully this is it.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #144 - 06/25/11 at 15:58:38
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F22 wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:03:00:
Which one of the top players today play the old 3. ... Nf6 these days?

Are Ehlvest, Short, Jussupow, Zvjaginsev and Khalifman strong enough for you? Or do you really want to maintain they play deliberately an inferior 3rd move?

BPaulsen wrote on 06/25/11 at 11:58:54:
F22's point is valid. The elites (2700+) gravitate more towards 3...Be7 than 3...Nf6 by a landslide, especially recently.

Wait a bit and it will be the reverse. As Janos Flesch remarked: the ever-changing fashions in the choice of openings sometimes change more quickly than in the clothing trade itself.
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #143 - 06/25/11 at 11:58:54
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F22's point is valid. The elites (2700+) gravitate more towards 3...Be7 than 3...Nf6 by a landslide, especially recently.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

However, it's Cox's book and I'm sure he makes a good argument for the lines he chose - so who cares, really?
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #142 - 06/25/11 at 11:56:55
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/25/11 at 10:59:46:
I also liked this ...Nh5 system in the exchange  especialy when i saw Shandorff's book paying little respect in that line. The "problem" that i found and kept me away was that if White plays a move order with Bd3 and not Qc2 i cannot play that ...Nh5 idea. I hope (i can say that i am sure) that Mr Cox solved this. I'll soon find out when i get his book at my hands.


It will be interesting to see what Cox has proposed against the exchange. For sure, I have played some OTB games, and many blitz internet games with Nge2 and I have often seen ...Nh5 ideas that are not mentioned by Schandorff. Haven't thought about delaying Qc2, but it makes sense against those ideas.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #141 - 06/25/11 at 10:59:46
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@F22: The "problem" is that you are sure that 3...Be7 is best when great specialist aren't! Rowson said somewhere that the better player you are the less sure you get about some chess positions. I had the same strong opinions some years back. My advice: be less sure. Anyway....

I'm a big big fan of Mr Cox. I have every book he has written and this one will be in my collection for sure. 

As a chess coach i tried many times to make those ...e5 lines work (in Lasker) , especialy the ...e5-e4 stuff that were recommended by GM McDonald in his Starting Out book. I always thought that the IQP lines are very dangerous. Now i have second thoughts about the theoretical assesment, but i am not yet convinced that in practice Black will not suffer. I'll work more on this and i'll share with you my thoughts (if you are interested for those!)

I also liked this ...Nh5 system in the exchange  especialy when i saw Shandorff's book paying little respect in that line. The "problem" that i found and kept me away was that if White plays a move order with Bd3 and not Qc2 i cannot play that ...Nh5 idea. I hope (i can say that i am sure) that Mr Cox solved this. I'll soon find out when i get his book at my hands.

I always advice people that want to take up the Tarrasch QG at their repertoire to have a QGD variation as a back-up line as a weapon that they can use 100 years from now. Seeing at last a good book on it is fantastic news.
  
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