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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox (Read 179335 times)
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #65 - 02/25/10 at 22:14:51
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I don't really see the benefit of updating Jangjava's book by covering 3...Be7 again, especially if there are unresolved problems with 4.Qc2.  Qc2 is indeed unusual, but as a White, whenever I see 3...Be7 I'm looking for unusual ways to challenge Black's move order.  I have played 4.Qc2 in blitz, with unremarkable results except on the clock.

I'd be more interested in buying a book that has 3...Nf6 and covers "the main lines" (as a certain other series advertises) than 3...Be7 lines and try to learn a Catalan variation that is less exacting than those with Bb4+.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #64 - 02/25/10 at 22:08:29
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kylemeister wrote on 02/25/10 at 21:54:03:
It would seem that Qc2 could end up as an extra move though (in the event of ...c5 dc Bxc5).


In the QGA it's extremely rare that Qc2 ends up being played anyway, and black gains the option of targetting d4.

An interesting (and likely fully playable/unclear) line would be 4. Qc2 dxc4 5. Nf3 Nc6!? (my annotation, but logical - d4 is a target) 6. e3 [6. Qa4 sees white using yet another tempo on the Q, and black can simply develop with 6...Nf6 7. Qxc4 Nb4 (Fritz) 8. Qb3 0-0] Nb4 7. Qd1 Nd3+ 8. Bxd3 cxd3 9. Qxd3. Black gained the B pair, white has a central majority, and it's fair to call it unclear.

5...a6 would be worth serious thought as well, and more typical for the QGA.
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #63 - 02/25/10 at 22:06:15
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I'm going to make another plea for the line that Topalov tried against Kramnik.  

That is, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dc4 5.Bg2 Bb4+
This line could transpose to main lines, but has independent significance.

Avrukh writes,



There is no question that Black's position is very solid....

In summary, I can state that Black's most challenging continuation is 6...a5. ... There have not, as yet, been enough games with 7.0-0 to draw any definite conclusions, but the fact that it has been employed recently by Kramnik and Ivanchuk says a lot.  ... I recognise that Black's position is quite sound.  I expect to see many games in the near future with 7.0-0
.


Grandmaster Repertoire 1.d4 volume 1, p.50


What better way to make your book especially interesting than if you can come up with some analysis that proves Avrukh correct that Black's position is sound after 7.0-0?  

It should be relatively easy to learn and has the benefit of being close enough to the main line to possibly confuse White.

Also, it fits comfortably with the repertoire in a way that other moves don't.  Again, it is sound, interesting, and practiced at the very highest levels of chess!
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #62 - 02/25/10 at 21:54:03
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It would seem that Qc2 could end up as an extra move (in the event of ...c5 dc Bxc5) ...though that might just shift it from "poor" to "nothing to write home about" ...

On 4. Nf3 (going for e4) there's also the idea of making the bishop move again in a line like ... c6 5. a4 Bb4 6. e3 b5 7. ab cb 8. b3 ...
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #61 - 02/25/10 at 21:23:24
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4. Qc2 dxc4 make a lot of sense - is white's Q well placed in a QGA? Black could make the argument that he should be able to equalize since white no longer influences the d4 square so critical to all QGA lines, and my personal impression is that white is headed for some really poor version of the e3 QGA where the Qc2 is just misplaced.

Sure, it's not thematic for a QGD book, but how often would 4. Qc2 occur anyway?
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #60 - 02/25/10 at 21:16:11
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I'll tell you my gripe with 3...Be7, just in confidence, you understand. Suppose White plays 4 Qc2. What is Black meant to do then if he isn't going to allow the main lines of 3...Nf6?
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #59 - 02/25/10 at 00:20:34
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Antillian wrote on 02/24/10 at 22:09:15:
According to the blurb, "Cox also demonstrates how to play against White's other tries, including the Exchange Variation and Bf4 lines."  

I had rightly or wrongly interpreted this comment to suggest that Cox was planning to take on the real Exchange Variation with 3...Nf6. Janjgava called 3...Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf4 as the Alatortsev Variation. 


From the blurb, I don't think you can tell one way or the other.  Could be either . . . or both Wink   


  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #58 - 02/24/10 at 22:09:15
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LeeRoth wrote on 02/24/10 at 19:39:45:
I second the nomination of the main line.  

I note that if IM Cox goes with the main line of the Catalan and also chooses the 3..Be7 move order and ..c5 vs the Bf4 lines, that his book may be viewed as a new and improved version of Jangjava's old book on these very same lines. 


According to the blurb, "Cox also demonstrates how to play against White's other tries, including the Exchange Variation and Bf4 lines."   

I had rightly or wrongly interpreted this comment to suggest that Cox was planning to take on the real Exchange Variation with 3...Nf6. Janjgava called 3...Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf4 as the Alatortsev Variation. 
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #57 - 02/24/10 at 19:39:45
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I second the nomination of the main line.   

I note that if IM Cox goes with the main line of the Catalan and also chooses the 3..Be7 move order and ..c5 vs the Bf4 lines, that his book may be viewed as a new and improved version of Jangjava's old book on these very same lines.   

I personally think that would be a good thing because (i) Jangjava's book, while excellent, was light on the verbal explanations, which is something that I imagine IM Cox will redress, and (ii) the readers who have the Jangjaja book -- and I imagine that most Tartakower and Lasker players would have it -- would want to stick with their existing lines as much as possible.   

I realize that I'm making a pretty big assumption on point (ii).  But it seems to me that if you've been playing 3..Be7 vs the Exchange for the last ten years, you're probably not that interested in switching to 3..Nf6.  (Unless of course your old line is under pressure, in which case a new approach may not only be welcome, but necessary.) 

BTW, one line to cover, which was not mentioned in Jangjava's book but is seen more often than you might think at club level is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e3.

  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #56 - 02/22/10 at 10:21:47
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IMJohnCox wrote on 02/07/10 at 00:40:59:
The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.


I suggest 4...Be7 5.Bg2 0-0 6.0-0 dc4 if you have the space to cover the main line in detail, and 4...b6 if you don't. 4...Bb4 isn't bad either, and indeed one possibility is to offer a setup that can be played via. several move orders: b6/Bb7/Be7(maybe Bb4 Bd2 first as well?)/c6/0-0, which is pretty solid and interesting (especially look at Tiviakov's games) although I suspect White has a route to a slight edge.
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #55 - 02/22/10 at 06:41:42
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Vandros wrote on 02/22/10 at 06:31:01:
BPaulsen wrote on 02/21/10 at 22:38:24:
Vandros wrote on 02/21/10 at 21:56:36:
IMJohnCox wrote on 02/07/10 at 00:40:59:
The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.

An idea: include a line where we can get 2 for 1.

It seems that the Catalan has sometimes tricky move order; many transpositions are possible.
It would be interesting to see, two possible moves, which after some other 2 or 3 moves may lead to the same positions and lines....



Doesn't happen if white's playing accurately in any line I can think of.


I mean to look for transpositions and to explicitly show them.

For example, black can start in one line with a6, and later move the knight to d7 or c6. Or he can start with knight on c6 or d7 and later move the pawns to a6, or b6 or b5.

Along those lines white could probably play a main variation leading to the same position or he may choose a side line.

I really don't know if that is possible, but it seems that the Catalan is a opening which allows many transpositions.


The "many transpositions" are mainly in whether white approaches via a flank opening, or not.

Once actually in the body of Catalan theory there's hardly any (and none I can think of if white/black is playing accurately).
  

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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #54 - 02/22/10 at 06:31:01
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BPaulsen wrote on 02/21/10 at 22:38:24:
Vandros wrote on 02/21/10 at 21:56:36:
IMJohnCox wrote on 02/07/10 at 00:40:59:
The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.

An idea: include a line where we can get 2 for 1.

It seems that the Catalan has sometimes tricky move order; many transpositions are possible.
It would be interesting to see, two possible moves, which after some other 2 or 3 moves may lead to the same positions and lines....



Doesn't happen if white's playing accurately in any line I can think of.


I mean to look for transpositions and to explicitly show them.

For example, black can start in one line with a6, and later move the knight to d7 or c6. Or he can start with knight on c6 or d7 and later move the pawns to a6, or b6 or b5.

Along those lines white could probably play a main variation leading to the same position or he may choose a side line.

I really don't know if that is possible, but it seems that the Catalan is a opening which allows many transpositions.
  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #53 - 02/21/10 at 22:38:24
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Vandros wrote on 02/21/10 at 21:56:36:
IMJohnCox wrote on 02/07/10 at 00:40:59:
The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.

An idea: include a line where we can get 2 for 1.

It seems that the Catalan has sometimes tricky move order; many transpositions are possible.
It would be interesting to see, two possible moves, which after some other 2 or 3 moves may lead to the same positions and lines....



Doesn't happen if white's playing accurately in any line I can think of.
  

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FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #52 - 02/21/10 at 21:56:36
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IMJohnCox wrote on 02/07/10 at 00:40:59:
The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.

An idea: include a line where we can get 2 for 1.

It seems that the Catalan has sometimes tricky move order; many transpositions are possible.
It would be interesting to see, two possible moves, which after some other 2 or 3 moves may lead to the same positions and lines....

  
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Re: Declining the Queen's Gambit by John Cox
Reply #51 - 02/07/10 at 00:40:59
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The book is supposed to have a Catalan line, although I haven't yet decided which one it will be - any ideas welcome, in fact.
  
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