Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/02/10 at 08:19:24:


How is covering the Catalan beyond the scope of the book? The book is a repertoire book for Black in the Queen's Gambit Declined and the Catalan is one of the lines White can play against the Queen's Gambit Declined so it is perfectly logical that the book would include a defense to the Catalan and illogical if it didn't.

I found in my notebook some "old" (3-4 years old) analysis of Reti-Catalan lines in my Tartakower files (i was preparing the Tartakower then). So, i offer it to you as food for thought:

1. d4

(A Reti line is 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 e6 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 Be7 5. O-O O-O 6. b3 a5 7. Bb2
(7.Nc3 d4 8. Nb5 Nc6 9. Bb2 e5 10. e3 Bc5=) 
7... a4=, NCO)

1... d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 Be7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O Nbd7 7. Qc2

(7. b3 c5! 8. cxd5 Nxd5 9. Bb2 b6 10. e4 N5f6 this is the most straightforward way to take advantage of 7.b3?!)

(7. Nc3 dxc4, see Raetsky) 

7... c6

(7... c5?! 8. cxd5 Nxd5 9. Nc3 Nxc3 10. bxc3, NCO and white is better)

8. Nbd2

(8.Bf4 Nh5 9. Bd2 f5 10. b4 Nb6 11. c5 Nc4=, NCO) 

(8. Rd1 Ne4 9.b3 
(9. Ne1 f5 10. Nc3 Nd6 NCO)
9... f5 10. Ba3 Bxa3 11. Nxa3 Qe7 12. Qb2 f4 NCO) 

(8. b3 b5!  Now this is good because Black can play ...Ne4 9. c5
(9. Nbd2 bxc4 10. bxc4 Ba6 Marin) 9... Ne4 10. Bb2 f5 11. Nbd2 (11. Ne1 Bg5 12. Nd3 a5 13. e3 Qf6 Dolmatov) 
11... Qc7 12. b4 a5 13. a3 Bf6 Dolmatov)

8... a5!? Now ...b5 is not good but this is interesting! 

9. e4

(9. b3 b5! 10. c5 Qc7! 11. e4 e5! this is the difference! Now Black is OK)

9... b6 10. e5

(10. Rd1 Bb7 11. b3 a4! 12. bxa4 dxe4 13.Nxe4 Nxe4 14. Qxe4 Rxa4 is typical!) 

10... Ne8 11. cxd5

(11. Re1 Nc7 12. h4 h6 13. Nf1
(13.b3 c5 14. Bb2 a4! )
13... c5 14. b3 a4) 

11... cxd5 12. Re1 Ba6 13. Nb1 b5 14. a3
Qc7 15. Qxc7 Nxc7 16. Bd2 b4 =

The line after 11.cxd5 was analysed by me yesterday because i needed to understand what is the difference with the a5 pawn thrown in against the Avrukh-recommended lines (he doesn't consider this ....a5 idea which is logical because it is quite rare). But it seems that the Avrukh plan is harmless here! Corrections and ideas are welcome!

7.dxc5 is just the reverse of a line that is known to be doing well for Black, so the extra tempo must help, having said that its not a move Id play myself for White! Although I wouldnt be too keen playing Black either, its dull and he still needs to take care.

As White Id definitely go 7.Bd3 going back into your line. 11.Rc1! is a big improvement for White - isnt that an old book line that was recommended for Black, but somehow nobody seems to follow it? After 11.Rc1 I'd be very nervous playing Black, you've just violated a lot of opening principles, whatever ECO says.

Honestly I'd go for the QID e3 line - White has already committed himself to the line with Nc3. I never saw anything better for Black than doing this and I've had this on the board with both colours.

The move-order given earlier isnt actually the best way of doing it for White, I think he should be going 6.b3 before touching the f1 bishop - otherwise Black can go ...dxc4. After 6.b3 if 6...c5 he could think about playing 7.dxc5 - its like White is playing a reversed line, shouldnt be much but its very dull.

Personally I dont think its worth the effort avoiding the QID e3 line, although if theres a promising way of doing it I'm open to suggestions...

That line is normally a transposition to the the QID classical e3 system, not sure Black has anything better than doing this. Its perfectly sound for White obviously, just a different system.

LeeRoth wrote on 02/24/10 at 19:39:45:


I agree.
I had this last night.
We continued:
5... 0-0 6.Bd3 c5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.b3 b6 9.Bb2 Bb7 10.cxd5 exd5 11.Ne5
I then played 11..Rc8 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Rc1 Re8 14.Ba6 Rc7 15.Bb5 Qd7 16.Bxc6 Rxc6 17.dxc5 bxc5 18.Qf3 and found my pawns to be weak. (I never got much in the way of activity).

When I see 5.e3 I think that it can't be good, but don't seem to manage anything. 
Is ...c5 the correct way to go? 
I hope this does get a mention in the book, as I don't find much coverage of this line. Cox's "1.d4 deviations" gives a line similar but not with Bd3 & Be7 included.

I have a soft spot for 3...Nf6 (actually when I played the Tartakower I preferred 1...Nf6, 2...e6 and 3...d5) -- kickin' it old school like Yusupov, if you will.  Incidentally I think ECO and the Panczyk/Ilczuk book on the Cambridge Springs are two sources from this century which thought that White shouldn't be able to achieve "+=" in the 3...Nf6 Exchange, though maybe that's a minority view.

Keano wrote on 03/01/10 at 10:03:13:


Yes, we've gotten a bit off track.  To be fair, though, Amentaitos was sticking to the topic and suggesting a reason why 3..Nf6 might be preferred to 3..Be7, and I was merely pointing out that White has some challenging options after 4.cxd5 Nxd5 other than 7.Nf3.   

Anway, I continue to prefer 3..Be7.  I don't think 4.Qc2 is a problem -- see my post above.  And the Exchange after 3..Be7 seems to me to be better, or at least more interesting, for Black than what you get after 3..Nf6 and Botvinnik's central expansion plan of Nge2, f3, e4.