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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C00: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line? (Read 10825 times)
bckm
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #19 - 04/25/10 at 23:45:22
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You could take it one step (?!) further: 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Kd1, followed by 4.Qe1, and then take a bathroom break...  Grin

I played once (as white) 1.d3 e5 2.e3 d5 3.d4...I had a French Reversed, as White, WITHOUT the extra move!  This works against some people who never play 1.e4 (and who live in caves), but, of course, Black has to cooperate...  Cheesy Wink
  
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dom
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #18 - 03/13/10 at 11:41:33
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Recent game...we can see how 2652 GM plays vs Chigorin variation as Black..well, I don't understand ???   (White blundering a pawn with 8.d4)

I prefer to remember game Kargin-Socko,Rijeka 2010
(9.Bd3!? Krisjannsson's idea in the 7.Qg4 Kf8 Winawer)

[Event "11th EICC Men"]
[Site "Rijeka CRO"]
[Date "2010.03.06"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Piscopo,P"]
[Black "Roiz,M"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2418"]
[BlackElo "2652"]
[EventDate "2010.03.06"]
[ECO "C00"]

1. e4 e6 2. Qe2 c5 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Nge7 5. Bg2 g6 6. O-O Bg7 7. c3 O-O 8.d4 cxd4 9. cxd4 d5 10. Nc3 dxe4 11. Nxe4 Nf5 12. Bg5 Qb6 13. Rad1 Ncxd4 14.
Nxd4 Nxd4 15. Qe3 Nf5 16. Qxb6 axb6 17. g4 h6 18. gxf5 hxg5 19. f6 Bh6 20.a3 e5 21. Rd6 Ra6 22. Rd5 Ra5 23. Rd6 Ra6 24. Rd5 g4 25. Rxe5 Be6 26. Rd1 Bf4 27. Rb5 Bc4 28. Rb4 Be6 29. Rb5 Rb8 30. Bf1 Ra4 31. Nc3 Ra5 32. Nd5 Rxb5 33. Bxb5 Be5 34. b4 Kh7 35. Nxb6 Rh8 1/2-1/2
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #17 - 02/23/10 at 03:07:57
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fire999 wrote on 02/19/10 at 00:46:46:
can anyone recommend a line against e4 e6 Qe2 for black please what the best line?

I guess 2 ... b6 would be at least a reasonable reply. If White aims for d4 then he/she will be playing a (deeply) non-critical version of Owen's Defence. If White aims for d3 then Black, amongst other things, could play the Hippo, where the e4/d3/Qe2 is very far from being the most challenging set-up.
  
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dom
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #16 - 02/22/10 at 20:50:11
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trw wrote on 02/22/10 at 07:18:40:
in fact chessvibes had a wonderful article on this move not too long ago: http://www.chessvibes.com/columns/chigorins-queen-move/#more-10086


As given in this web page, Kaissiber #26 "Die Rolle des Zufalls in den Eroffnungen" gives a very good overview for Qe2 move. About 14 pages written by Gerard Welling.
Thanks to Stefan and French forum competition I had the luck to read this paper (german written)  Smiley.
« Last Edit: 02/23/10 at 11:25:45 by dom »  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #15 - 02/22/10 at 13:04:28
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2...e5 3.Qe3!
  
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MNb
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #14 - 02/22/10 at 12:56:37
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Unless you meet a French player who plays 1.e4 as White. 1.e4 e5 (White to move) is exactly the same as 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1 (Black to move).
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #13 - 02/22/10 at 12:38:22
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Agreed. I noticed it didn't cover the KIA lines, preferring to focus on more independent lines, such as with f4 or b3.

As Stefan Loffler mentioned on the linked article, 2...e5!? isn't bad either since White's strongest systems after 1.e4 e5 are no longer on the cards. The Vienna Game with 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3 and the King's Gambit with 3.f4 then has more sting than usual, but still shouldn't be enough for an opening advantage. Finally, if White wants to be very shrewd (or takes the 1.a3/1.h3 thread too seriously), he can play 3.Qd1?!?, forcing Black (a French player) out of his repertoire.

@MNb

Yes, that is what I meant.
« Last Edit: 02/23/10 at 04:47:13 by TN »  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #12 - 02/22/10 at 11:15:49
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trw wrote on 02/22/10 at 07:18:40:
in fact chessvibes had a wonderful article on this move not too long ago: http://www.chessvibes.com/columns/chigorins-queen-move/#more-10086

Thanks for the reference - a very interesting article indeed
  
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trw
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #11 - 02/22/10 at 07:18:40
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in fact chessvibes had a wonderful article on this move not too long ago: http://www.chessvibes.com/columns/chigorins-queen-move/#more-10086
  
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TN
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #10 - 02/22/10 at 04:50:13
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Agreed, but instead of 5...b6, I would prefer 5...b5 (this is a bit more loosening but gains more space) 6.e5 (6.Bg2 Bb7 7.Nbd2 c5 8.0-0 or 8.a4 is probably better but still not enough for any advantage) 6...Nfd7 7.Bg2 Bb7 8.0-0 c5 and Black will achieve good counterplay on the queenside. I forget how to meet 9.a4 but recall that it was covered in a similar position in McDonald's book 'How to play against 1.e4'.

Still, it's probably a matter of taste since both moves equalise without difficulty.
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #9 - 02/22/10 at 00:25:45
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I don't know that 3.Qe2 deserves an exclam, but Black has plenty of good moves at his disposal.

The most popular line is 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.g3.

Black has several good moves here, but at first glance, I like 5...b6 6.e5 Nfd7 7.Bg2 Bb7 8.0-0 c5.

Interestingly, Psakhis played the white side of this once, in 1996.

2....d5 3.Qe2 scores relatively well, but I don't think it should be such a problem that it dictates your choice of variations on move 2.
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #8 - 02/22/10 at 00:16:18
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Let's say you like playing 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nc6 4.Nf3 e5 against the KIA.

Then however, what do you do against 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2! where things don't seem so clear...
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #7 - 02/20/10 at 11:32:42
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After 3.c3 Nc6, 4.Na3!? is an interesting alternative, with the idea of 4...d5 5.ed5 Qd5 6.Nb5, but after the simple 4...Be7 5.d3 d5 6.Be3 d4! Black has no problems.
  
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dom
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #6 - 02/20/10 at 11:31:40
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Another system is fianchetto KID setup  (g6,Bg7)...

Sometimes I read that it is favorite setup among GMs...but I dont't know it it's true...maybe current time GMs like the KID I don't know !?

One line is:

2.Qe2 c5! 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3

(5.f4 Nc6 6.c3 novelty from game Morozevich-Dolmatov,Krasnodar 1997 6...Nge7 7.Nf3 d5 8.d3 b6 ; 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.oo Nge7 delaying d6/d5 7.d3 d5 8.e5 h6 9.Re1 Qc7 10.c3 b6 11.h4 Bb7 Bologan-Van Wely,Roumanie 2000 or 7.Nc3 d6 8.d3 oo a position which looks like closed sicilian but with a misplaced queen on e2 square (Dvoretsky) )

5...Nc6 6.c3 Nge7 7.Be3 or 7.Nf3 b6 = Nedela-Miles,Cappelle La Grande 1998
  
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dom
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #5 - 02/20/10 at 11:07:11
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@Taljechin: thanks for google tip...

Usually I don't like to flame with the usual RTFF (my job is about computer, I know how hard is when nobody helps you because you "have not RTFM !?!")...but, I cannot enjoy post on forum which looks like one troll post..because other posts from fire999 are of the same kind (what to play against f4 ? ...) and because he did'nt take time to feel his profile or try to explain clearly his aim.

The question is not so far from the limit "What is the best line for Black ?"  Smiley

Of course I have one answer for the thread question: best line for Black is the one you can imagine with all your natural skills, imanigation and knowledge to win the game as Black.

Lines I liked best are:2...c5 with a later Be7

A) 3.f4 Nc6  4.Nf3 Be7 5.g3 (5.Nc3?!  novelty in game Lendwai-Uhmann,Graz 1991 d5! ; 5.d3 d5!?  ) d5! with  the excellent coverage of the KIA in Uhlmann's book about the French. 

B) 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d3 (4.g3 b6 5.Bg2 Bb7 6.oo g5!? Klein-Juegel,Eifel open 2004 (forum Chesspublishing) ; 4.Nc3 Be7 5.g3 d5 6.Bg2 (6.d3 Nf6 7.Bg2 Nd4 Chigorin-Schiffers,Nuremberg 1896) Nf6 7.oo oo Yousry-Amin,2003 8.d3 d4!? Taratakower's moves given by few books..Treybal-Tartakower,Pistian 1922 (ECG) ; 4.b3 Nge7 Velickovic-Ulibin,Ano Liosia 1997 (Jovicic) ;4.Qe3 a6 Vajda-Farago,Nagykaniska 2003 )

4...Be7 5.g3 d5 6.Bg2 (6.e5 f6; 6.c3 Nf6 7.Bg2 b6!? or 7...c4  Svetushkin-Annageldyev,Istanbul 2000) Nf6 7.oo b6!? 8.e5 Nd7 9.c4! Bronstein-Nowak,Sandomierz 1976 (Taulbut et ECG)  Without this undermining move, Black will soon have counterplay   9....Bb7 (9...Nf8!? Balachov-Lputian,URSS 1980 (ECG)) 10.Nbd2 (10.h4 d4 Glueck-Seirawan,Philadelphie 1987) dxc4! =

C) 3.g3 Nc6 ; 3.d3 Nc6 transposes to A) or B)

D) 3.Nc3 Smyslov-Ivanchuk,1993 Nc6 Chigorin-Tarrasch,1893 (ECG)

E) 3.b3 Nc6 4.Bb2 Nf6 is maybe the original idea of Chigorin: White has an offbeat and flexible opening

F) 3.c3 Nc6 4.g3 d5!? (Dolmatov)
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #4 - 02/19/10 at 11:44:25
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TalJechin wrote on 02/19/10 at 09:15:43:
You can search the forum more effectively via google, like this:
http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&q=site:chesspub.com+1.e4+e6+2.Qe2&meta=&aq=&oq=site:...

Terrific!! And with google you don't have to wait between searches.
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #3 - 02/19/10 at 09:15:43
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You can search the forum more effectively via google, like this:
http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&q=site%3Achesspub.com+1.e4+e6+2.Qe2&meta=&aq=&oq=sit...
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #2 - 02/19/10 at 06:48:34
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So far, Fire has had 9 posts.  4 are: What's the best line against the... Bird, Dutch, 2.Qe2 French, and the London System.

2.Qe2 in the French is often called the Chigorin Variation because Mikhail Chigorin played it more than 100 years ago.  Onischuk played it a few times about a decade ago.  More recently, Zhang Zhong (+2600) also played it.

There are plenty of threads already in existence on all of these openings.  Please look at what's already been posted.  You can use the search function to find all sorts of amazing analysis.
  
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Re: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
Reply #1 - 02/19/10 at 01:00:09
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2...c5; followed by 3...Nc6; 4...Nge7; evt. 5...g6 and 6...Bg7.
  
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C00: 2 qe2 in the French whats the best line?
02/19/10 at 00:46:46
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can anyone recommend a line against e4 e6 Qe2 for black please what the best line?
« Last Edit: 07/23/11 at 15:52:32 by dom »  
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