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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Avrukh Volume II. (Read 17200 times)
Antillian
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #34 - 03/09/10 at 20:53:29
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LeeRoth wrote on 03/09/10 at 19:50:09:
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As an aside, while both the author and publishers are justifiably proud, I must admit I do find the boasting about all the novelties to be a bit irritating especially the way they are all marked 'N'.  It reminds me a bit too much of certain less impressive books.


I don't know, I kind of like the 'N's.  Let's you know at a glance where Avrukh is departing from what's been played before and suggesting something of his own.  

I appreciate that in ordinary opening books, the author might say something in the text like "and here I suggest that White could have improved with . . ." without marking the new move with an 'N', but here, where there are new moves suggest in almost every line, I think it helps to do a bit more.


Well the "N" thing is part marketing ploy. It reminds me of Pirc Alert. I don't mind it all all though. Although, I am pretty sure. have played a novelty in everyone of my games in my career so far. 
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #33 - 03/09/10 at 19:50:09
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Quote:

As an aside, while both the author and publishers are justifiably proud, I must admit I do find the boasting about all the novelties to be a bit irritating especially the way they are all marked 'N'.  It reminds me a bit too much of certain less impressive books.


I don't know, I kind of like the 'N's.  Let's you know at a glance where Avrukh is departing from what's been played before and suggesting something of his own.   

I appreciate that in ordinary opening books, the author might say something in the text like "and here I suggest that White could have improved with . . ." without marking the new move with an 'N', but here, where there are new moves suggest in almost every line, I think it helps to do a bit more.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #32 - 03/09/10 at 19:48:25
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Point well taken that even candidate masters need to work on tactics and technique at least as much as openings.  I agree that I overstated the case that these books are "must read" material.  But, compared to other openings, these are plenty sharp enough.

I never said that these books need to be bought! If your local library invests in chess books, you can peruse them by using public resources and not buy a single one.   

I do still believe that the goal of these Grandmaster Repertoire books is more laudable than the Starting Out series (which has uneven quality and some strange recommendations for people "starting out") or any of the hundreds of books advocating iffy gambits and coffeehouse play.  That is, for the 2000-2200 set.
  
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #31 - 03/09/10 at 17:16:00
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I have my copy, which is definitely an impressive achievement.  For those complaining about the length, consider how many books/pages you need to buy to have a 'complete' main line black repertoire.

As an aside, while both the author and publishers are justifiably proud, I must admit I do find the boasting about all the novelties to be a bit irritating especially the way they are all marked 'N'.  It reminds me a bit too much of certain less impressive books.

In any case, I've found a couple of places already where move orders seemed to have tripped them up a little.  More concretely, in the Catalan Benoni line, he gives Gelfand-Aronian which went:

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 g3 c5 4 d5 exd5 5 cxd5 b5 6 Nf3 d6 7 e4 a6 8 a4 b4

and here he mentions the game continued:

9 Bd3 g6 10 Nbd2 Bg7 11 Nc4 0-0 12 Bf4 Ne8 

with some analysis (and suggested improvement).  He then claims Gelfand should have played the "much stronger" Nbd2 which seems to force the black bishop to e7.  I wondered why, and the reason seems to be:

"9 Nbd2!N" g6 10 Nc4"!" Bg7 11 Bd3 0-0 12 Bf4 Ne8 

and stops here, which rather unfortunately is a direct transposition to Gelfand-Aronian.  So Nbd2 isn't much stronger unless it cuts out a good option for black which it doesn't seem to.

I doubt it is possible to avoid mistakes in a book this big though, and there is enough on Bd3 to allow you to play it so it's not a big deal.
  
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Keano
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #30 - 03/09/10 at 16:32:23
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Its fine that people are buying these books, and in the case of Avrukh it looks like a really good book, but I tend to disagree that any of these opening books are must-read material. If people are not inclined to buy opening books you have to stop and think for a minute that they may very well be right. In general this forum is very fond of singing the praises of various opening books, no harm in that, but the earlier poster is quite right and a lot would be better off saving their money and practicing some tactics and endgames, and picking what opening lines they like from the databases.
  
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Antillian
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #29 - 03/09/10 at 12:47:44
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This debate on how much theory a sub-2200 player should learn is a reoccurring theme on this board. I can understand someone being overwhelmed at these massive serial tomes. Personally, I intend to buy all three of Marin's series and have already bought both of Avrukh. One reason I enjoy Marin's opening books is that they read like far more than an opening book. There are chuck  full of middlegame instruction. Admittedly, Avrukh is a bit tougher to digest. 

I believe it was Aagaard who said you should only try to memorize the moves in bold in the GM books. To hell with that - even that is too much for my old brain!  But on the hand, I feel like the understanding I gain in the positions is enough for me to feel confident enough for OTB play at my level. And when playing back through the moves, I am more often than not able to find the right move. 

I am yet to win a game due to opening preparation where remembering a specific line mattered. However, I have won many games, where I simply understood the opening position and resulting middle-game better because of my study of the opening.
  

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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #28 - 03/09/10 at 11:18:54
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Alias wrote on 03/09/10 at 10:46:57:
Most of the chessplayers I know spend far too much time on openings. Tactics, endgames and strategy (probably in that order) are far more important in terms of scoring points.
When was the last time you won a game due to good opening preparation??

Anyway, I still see the point of 2000-2200 players getting these books. You learn a lot about all aspects about chess from reading them. Maybe dedicated books on tactics et c. are more worthwile. Perhaps briefer 1.c4 and 1.d4 repertoire books are "better" for the <2200 player. NCO (or similar), a database and an engine could be useful. I still like the good opening books.



Actually, have won quite a lot to be honest. Tho mainly by playing  decent, non-main line stuff against people 2000-2200 who only know main, main lines. (i.e. 20 moves of dragon/najdorf/KID, but only 6-10 moves of c3 sicilian, or Bishop's opening/Vienna, or Torre/Tromp, or sic Kalashnikov).
  
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #27 - 03/09/10 at 10:46:57
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Most of the chessplayers I know spend far too much time on openings. Tactics, endgames and strategy (probably in that order) are far more important in terms of scoring points. 

When was the last time you won a game due to good opening preparation??

Anyway, I still see the point of 2000-2200 players getting these books. You learn a lot about all aspects about chess from reading them. Maybe dedicated books on tactics et c. are more worthwile. Perhaps briefer 1.c4 and 1.d4 repertoire books are "better" for the <2200 player. NCO (or similar), a database and an engine could be useful. I still like the good opening books.
  

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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #26 - 03/09/10 at 10:29:51
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/08/10 at 23:54:38:
Whoever said these lines aren't sharp hasn't played them.  

The lines give white a slight edge against perfect play. If you play less than perfectly as Black, you'll end up bleeding to death and not knowing you were even cut.  Avrukh's lines are designed for a player like Dreev to take advantage of the slightest slip and crush his opponent.  

I won't use Avrukh's every suggestion, but he answers many questions for me.  

If you want flashy lines that win in coffeehouses, these volumes may not be for you.  But if, like many of the Chess Pub players, you are around 2000-2200 and are looking for a way to maximise your points in serious competition, then these series (along with Marin's and possibly Aagard's), are must-read material depending on which flavor opening you prefer.  


Although I respect your opinion, and strictly speaking you're right about the quality of these books, there not for everyone. Plunking down a hundred dollars (Marin's English - $65 or so for Avrukh's) to learn GM lines if you're below 2200 may not be the most efficient use of your time. I don't think, somehow, the alternative is learning a "Coffeehouse opening." I like most of what Marin and Avrukh choose, but I probably will never get the majority of positions described. Currently I play 1.c4 a lot - and I see the KID nearly 50% of the time.

So, I think you set up a kind of false dichotomy.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #25 - 03/08/10 at 23:54:38
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Whoever said these lines aren't sharp hasn't played them.   

The lines give white a slight edge against perfect play. If you play less than perfectly as Black, you'll end up bleeding to death and not knowing you were even cut.  Avrukh's lines are designed for a player like Dreev to take advantage of the slightest slip and crush his opponent.   

I won't use Avrukh's every suggestion, but he answers many questions for me.   

If you want flashy lines that win in coffeehouses, these volumes may not be for you.  But if, like many of the Chess Pub players, you are around 2000-2200 and are looking for a way to maximise your points in serious competition, then these series (along with Marin's and possibly Aagard's), are must-read material depending on which flavor opening you prefer.   

  
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #24 - 03/08/10 at 23:19:36
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Yeah, I'm forced to agree. Rather hilarious. Openings that aren't supposed to be that sharp (I thought I played the English to avoid theory?) end up giving you an impractical amount of homework...
  

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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #23 - 03/08/10 at 22:13:49
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So one has to learn more than 1000 pages only to play these openings with confidence?! Who´s the target audience, IMHO it´s impossible to work this through as an amateur, maybe even for semiprofs it´s too much and as a reference any database + engine is better.
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #22 - 03/08/10 at 21:18:33
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The Marin series is now planned to be 1280 pages.
  

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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #21 - 03/08/10 at 19:46:51
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That's a mere 1,100 pages you have to be familiar with to play this repertoire.  Who said chess was a hard game?


Yes very manageable indeed. But it must be remembered that this is a non confrontional repertoire which mostly tries for a very modest pull. If you wanted to take on e.g. the Botwinnik Slav, that would be an additional 1200 pages.
« Last Edit: 03/08/10 at 22:31:32 by tafl »  

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Re: Avrukh Volume II.
Reply #20 - 03/08/10 at 19:06:53
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So let's see, there were 500 pages or so in Volume I, 600 in Volume II.  That's a mere 1,100 pages you have to be familiar with to play this repertoire.  Who said chess was a hard game?
  

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