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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C57: Two Knights 5...Nxd5 (Read 78946 times)
Master Om
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #10 - 03/24/10 at 18:29:04
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Markovich wrote on 03/24/10 at 12:42:50:
Master Om wrote on 03/24/10 at 12:35:18:
No i wont. So you need proof ?. I will post a pgn ASAP

By all means do.  You will overturn my preconception, which is that the Fried Liver is pretty equal with best play.  But say, didn't Martin de Leeuw already try to prove that?

With Kind regards chess is draw with correct play. There is no such loosing lines w/o the blunders of opposition. Fried Liver is draw at best in one particular line and that too if you play with Computer's accuracy which is not expected from even advanced players also as humans are weak tactically. So here is the analysis i had  and proof checked by Rybka 3 Dynamic on 32 cores server ~ 400-450 kn/s. Ideas are welcome and i think its just enough to change views of many guys here.
Yes Its Marteen de Zeeuw who had its analysis in NIC and he showed 5.Nd5! not 5.Nd5?
  
How_to_Refute_5___Nd5_.pgn ( 2 KB | Downloads )
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ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #9 - 03/24/10 at 16:19:57
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Master Om wrote on 03/24/10 at 12:35:18:
No i wont. So you need proof ?. I will post a pgn ASAP


oh snap it's on like donkey kong
  
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Markovich
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #8 - 03/24/10 at 12:42:50
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Master Om wrote on 03/24/10 at 12:35:18:
No i wont. So you need proof ?. I will post a pgn ASAP

By all means do.  You will overturn my preconception, which is that the Fried Liver is pretty equal with best play.  But say, didn't Martin de Leeuw already try to prove that?
  
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Master Om
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #7 - 03/24/10 at 12:35:18
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No i wont. So you need proof ?. I will post a pgn ASAP
  
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MNb
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #6 - 03/23/10 at 23:42:59
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Master Om wrote on 03/23/10 at 02:09:33:
I have a whole complete analysis regarding this. And by the way Fried liver looses for white , if white plays Nf7 and i can prove that.


Congratulations. As long as you keep it for yourself I don't give a .... (add your favourite abusive word).
  
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ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #5 - 03/23/10 at 09:18:07
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Master Om wrote on 03/23/10 at 02:09:33:
kylemeister wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:59:15:
Master Om wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:35:32:

6.....Be6 is the move that white cant refute so easily. Black holds on its own after Qh5 or Qg4. Fried liver is a better option to play for black and you have better chances to win.


I would certainly think that the textbook 6...Be6 7. Nxe6 fe 8. de Nxe5 9. Qh5+ etc. is clearly better for White, i.e. a refutation.

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black.

I have a whole complete analysis regarding this. And by the way Fried liver looses for white , if white plays Nf7 and i can prove that.


Are we talking about the variation 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5? That sounds kind of...(sloughterish?)
  
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Master Om
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #4 - 03/23/10 at 02:14:35
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TonyRo wrote on 03/22/10 at 18:20:18:
kylemeister wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:59:15:

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black.


You just have to plead with your opponent!

"Please no Lolli! No don't!"

Grin

Just the opposite . I plead for yes fried liver yes fried liver , yes loli yes loli .... Cheesy
  
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Master Om
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #3 - 03/23/10 at 02:09:33
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kylemeister wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:59:15:
Master Om wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:35:32:

6.....Be6 is the move that white cant refute so easily. Black holds on its own after Qh5 or Qg4. Fried liver is a better option to play for black and you have better chances to win.


I would certainly think that the textbook 6...Be6 7. Nxe6 fe 8. de Nxe5 9. Qh5+ etc. is clearly better for White, i.e. a refutation.

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black.

I have a whole complete analysis regarding this. And by the way Fried liver looses for white , if white plays Nf7 and i can prove that.
  
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ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #2 - 03/22/10 at 18:24:18
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kylemeister wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:59:15:
Master Om wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:35:32:

6.....Be6 is the move that white cant refute so easily. Black holds on its own after Qh5 or Qg4. Fried liver is a better option to play for black and you have better chances to win.


I would certainly think that the textbook 6...Be6 7. Nxe6 fe 8. de Nxe5 9. Qh5+ etc. is clearly better for White, i.e. a refutation.

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black.


Maybe the best option for a decisive result.

Out of curiosity, I did a search to see if anyone strong plays the Fried Liver. Novitzkij (2284) - Zaitsev (2420), St. Petersburg 1999 is highest level game I've found. So apparently a grandmaster has played it! I don't get it.

I remember Sam Sloan writing an article about Damiano's Defence (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5?? 4.Qh5+ Ke7) where he swindled a few people who failed to attack properly (often they missed h4 as a resource I think). Maybe it's something like that. Tongue
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
Reply #1 - 03/22/10 at 18:20:18
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kylemeister wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:59:15:

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black.


You just have to plead with your opponent!

"Please no Lolli! No don't!"

Grin
  
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kylemeister
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C57: Two Knights 5...Nxd5
03/22/10 at 17:59:15
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Master Om wrote on 03/22/10 at 17:35:32:

6.....Be6 is the move that white cant refute so easily. Black holds on its own after Qh5 or Qg4. Fried liver is a better option to play for black and you have better chances to win.


I would certainly think that the textbook 6...Be6 7. Nxe6 fe 8. de Nxe5 9. Qh5+ etc. is clearly better for White, i.e. a refutation.

I also don't get the comment about the Fried Liver being a better option to play for Black. 

Edited:
Having read this thread, I think the line in question is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.ed5 Nd5 I am not so certain what White's 6th move is. I think it may be 6.d4~SF August 1st, 2011
« Last Edit: 08/01/11 at 21:07:51 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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