Against 1...Nf6 

If we are assuming you will play a mainline classical KID as white (Gligoric), then 2.Nf3 still allows you to rule out the benko gambit:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.Nc3 transposes to maroczy bind positions which you may as well have in your repertoire for dealing with c5 in the classical KID  eg  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nc3 0-0 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 c5.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 b5 5.Bg5 transposes to a line you must play anyway against benoni move orders eg 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 b5 5.Bg5

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 4.b5 Bg5 and white fairs better here that against the normal benko.



Against 1...d5

Again, besides ruling out garbage like the Albin, 2.Nf3 gives white the nice option of delaying c4 against the chigorin (Bf4,e3,h3 and only later c4).  More importantly, it can reduce black's options in the QGA.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 dxc commits black to playing an early Nf6.  White only needs to know a small portion of the ambitious lines with 4.Nc3

4...c5 5.d5 e6 6.e4 is the critical line, but one that is much sharper than a typical QGA player prefers.  4...c6 is just a Slav and 4...e6 is a Vienna, which I presume an ambitious, "non-catalan" player must already know.

If you like the agressive QGA lines with Nf3/Nc3/e4, you will find it fits as well against an early c5 by black QGA players:

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.c4 dxc 4.d5 Nf6 5.Nc3 is common.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.c4 dxc 4.e4 cxd 5.Qxd4 is also playable for a risk free slight edge.

ReneDescartes wrote on 12/08/11 at 15:54:46:

Rather less than more.
Stahlberg-Opocensky, Podebrady 1936.
Glass-Opocensky, Vienna 1936.
Weinstock-Opocensky, Vienna 1936.
Keres-Opocensky, Parnu 1937.
Eliskases-Opocensky, Prague 1937.
Van Scheltinga-Opocensky, Olympiade 1939.

ReneDescartes wrote on 12/08/11 at 15:45:25:


Sorry, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but she did play the Benko (which I am not sure is a caveman thing, many lines I would call quite positional, despite being a gambit) as Black.

ReneDescartes wrote on 06/09/10 at 01:22:13:


This is actually an interesting point. I don't think it is a too heavy price. I still prepare against Symmetrical English, Queen's pawn games, Caro-Kann and QGA reversed even when playing the Slav. I normally play Sicilians as Black, and also plan French and Caro-Kann

Btw, IIRC, Pia has played quite a lot of Benko, even though not lately, and I would classify her in the solid player-category, with great endgame play. At least she doesn't fit with the description of an 1.e4 player seeing 1.d4 as something else than chess!

ReneDescartes wrote on 06/09/10 at 01:22:13:

In that case the defence 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Bb4+ becomes much more relevant. After 1.d4 f5 White usually avoids this with 1.d4 f5 2.g3.
Nice.

In reading a post by Hoember Chess in a thread above under d-pawn Specials, I noticed a major addition to the current topic (I mean to the strictly defined issue in the thread title).

Remarkably,  White cannot force a main-line 1.d4 opening after 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5--not even a Benoni.  He cannot advance the d-pawn, and should not take on c5, yet if he does neither Black can capture on d4, transposing to a flank opening (or perhaps to something like a Panov if capturing after 3.e3).  The only way to fight for the chance at a major d4 opening is to play 3.c3, hoping for 3...cxd4 4.cxd4 and a transposition into some kind of Exchange Slav; but then Black refrains from capturing and leaves White in a d-pawn special.

This is such a major hole that  I dare say any player who intends to use 2.Nf3 to enter main d4 lines while frustrating the Benko, Budapest, etc. must revert to 2.c4 after 1...e6, in order to meet 2.c5 with 3.d5.

Of course, for Black this power comes at a heavy price: in order to frustrate the 1.d4 2.Nf3 player he must have incredibly broad preparation, including not only the French (2.e4), but also the open Sicilian (3.e4), the relevant Symmetrical English lines (3.c4), Queen's Pawn Games (3.c3), possibly the Caro-Kann (3.e3), and something like a Reti or QGA reversed (3.dxc5).

Still, I wonder if this might not be an ideal resource for those 1.e4 players who feel frustrated with 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.c4 and who would enjoy turning the tables on White. While some of the lines would hardly satisfy open-game bloodlust, they would probably disrupt White's plans severely.  I know I would be deeply shocked.

ReneDescartes wrote on 05/18/10 at 00:56:34:


First when 1...d5 is on the board.  Whenever you play the QG with your knight early on f3, you must play against the Ragozin/Vienna and also against the Semi-Tarrasch.  White's chances are good enough in either case, but it does affect your preparation.  Also as already pointed out innumerable times in these forums, you lose the option of playing the Exchange.  Finally 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 allows 2...Bf5, which in my opinion sets up more than trivial problems for White.  Still, I suppose that White is good enough there.  So if none of this bothers you, there is no big problem with the early Nf3.

Now when 1...Nf6 is on the board.  You really beg the question when you presuppose that White never wants to push his f-pawn early or deploy his KN differently.  2.Nf3 in this context is a very limiting move, particularly because White undertakes to play against the QID.  But yes, IF you already accept all those limits AND play the QG with Nf3 early (after 2...e6, 3...d5), then there is no cost in playing it.

P.S. Black can still achieve Chigorin-like play after 1...d5 2.Nf3 Nc6.  Indeed 3.c4, transposing into a Chigorin, may be White's best move.  See Morozevich's book.  In fact there are players who answer 1.Nf3 with 1...Nc6.

Stigma wrote on 05/19/10 at 13:57:07:

Having been such a player for a while I now think that such players should open 1.d4 and 2.c4. Those QGA-lines (including the Slav) are fun if White allows ....b7-b5.