(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Other › Chit Chat › Religion WARNING: CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC
(Moderators: RoleyPoley, Smyslov_Fan, Jupp53)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18] 19 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Religion WARNING: CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC (Read 111268 times)
Antillian
God Member
*****
Offline


Brilliance without dazzle!

Posts: 1757
Joined: 01/05/03
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #16 - 06/02/10 at 14:39:35
Post Tools
TN wrote on 06/02/10 at 08:56:23:

Well stated. Jesus is not the Christ, and God does not exist. And how do we know what parts of the Bible are fact and which are fiction?

................

Jesus Christ, I thought that was obvious. Shocked

The accounts of his life are biased and often fictitious.



I am stunned. This has to one of  the single most arrogant posts I have come across in my years at this pub. 

Discussions of this nature will inevitably stir more passions than a BDG thread. This underscores the reason why these kinds of discussions are probably best not encouraged on this forum. 


  
"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #15 - 06/02/10 at 14:18:49
Post Tools
@TN: Mine was a statement of my own belief, not something that I expected GabrielGale to accept.  I think it's better to post in the vein of, "Well, this is what I believe" than to insist that one has The Truth.

@GabrielGale: It isn't Jesus versus anti-Jesus.  It's believing in Jesus versus not believing in Jesus.  For me, the supposed Christ is merely one example of a supposed spiritual entity whose existence I deny; I deny the existence of all such entities. Personally I do not object to your expression of Christian viewpoints here, and I hope you don't object to my expression of a non-Christian viewpoint.  But like I said, I don't think that this is the place to debate our beliefs at any length.     
« Last Edit: 06/02/10 at 20:24:11 by Markovich »  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10775
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #14 - 06/02/10 at 10:32:51
Post Tools
TN wrote on 06/02/10 at 08:56:23:
It all started with the Big Bang...you can Google the rest.

Questionable. The BB follows from Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and does not take quantumeffects into account.

You have forgotten something:

BirdBrain wrote on 06/01/10 at 19:40:59:
I see it is okay to bash Jesus, but to support him is anti-social?  Please...

Another strawman.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #13 - 06/02/10 at 08:56:23
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 06/01/10 at 17:44:32:
Phillip Pullman, author of the brilliant His Dark Materials trilogy and notable enemy of religion, is pulling a few people's legs.

Just speaking for myself, an atheist, I deny Jesus as Christ and I don't care much about Jesus the man, about whom very little is known.  There are those whose brief against Christianity is so thoroughgoing that they deny that such a man existed.  Personally, I think that the preponderance of likelihood is that this Joshua bar Joseph existed and that he was some sort of charismatic, rabble-rousing preacher, and somehow managed to get himself crucified for it.  I can only speculate that he did claim to be the long-sought Messiah of the Jews, or at least refused to deny it.  Otherwise I am at a loss to understand how a Roman court could have meted out such an extreme judgment against him.


Well stated. Jesus is not the Christ, and God does not exist. And how do we know what parts of the Bible are fact and which are fiction?

@BirdBrain

Oh dear. Looks like I upset someone.

Quote:
Amazing, a pub full of blind men, who think they know everything...so smart at chess, yet so blind.


Are you being hypocritical? 

Quote:
Mark, you criticize Jesus, and for what?  You read the accounts of his life, yet you dismiss it as nothing, and why?


Jesus Christ, I thought that was obvious. Shocked

The accounts of his life are biased and often fictitious.

Quote:
You call Christians wackos, TN, yet no good reason for it. 


Now you're trying to put words into other people's mouths. I never said or implied that Christians were wackos. 

If you are going to quote me at least quote something I actually said.

Quote:
Guys, if you have to be afraid of religious posts, that is fine, but you do such a good job of bashing things you don't have a clue about.


Thanks. Now I don't even have to bother verifying your degree in Hypocrisy. 

Quote:
Take a look around you...I guess you think you evolved from a monkey too, right?


It all started with the Big Bang...you can Google the rest. 

Quote:
Who made the world that you know?  I guess it just magically appeared.


And what do you mean by 'world'? Our society? Our planet? Our connections to others? Our values, morals and beliefs? Our universe? Or just our perceptions?

Quote:
I can get banned for this thread, and that would be okay


Now you're exaggerating. Not knowing your facts doesn't even breach the rules of the Forum, let alone warrant a ban.

Quote:
I see it is okay to bash Jesus, but to support him is anti-social?  Please...
 

Supporting him is fine, but you'll have a jolly good time trying to convince me of your POV.

________________________________________

Sorry about the cuts. 
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #12 - 06/02/10 at 00:01:53
Post Tools
I must have missed something  somewhere which is typical of my chess at the moment. I was impressed by Pullman's "simple" assertion of so-called rights to speech which I thought might be interesting for Chesspubbers in the " ChitChat section. I was wrong, it seems. I did not intend this to be about religion (perhaps I missed that or I was naive).

Reiterating, Pullman was about rights. Tangentially this has something to do with chess with the most recent imbroglio involving Danailov and Chessbase and the pending/threatened lawsuit in the German courts.

Now that Tony Kosten has clarified the purpose of ChitChat, I will refrain from posting ever again here as I am neither Dutch nor an active football watcher (though I remain a Liverpool supporter albeit presently a latent supporter).

So, Smyslov_Fan, please lock the thread, close it down, or even delete. After all it is only taking up space on the server and there is no "archival" benefits to keeping it somewhere.
« Last Edit: 06/02/10 at 01:39:53 by GabrielGale »  
http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10775
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #11 - 06/01/10 at 23:59:22
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 06/01/10 at 17:44:32:
Personally, I think that the preponderance of likelihood is that this Joshua bar Joseph existed and that he was some sort of charismatic, rabble-rousing preacher, and somehow managed to get himself crucified for it. 


http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messianic_claimants05.html

BirdBrain wrote on 06/01/10 at 19:40:59:
I can get banned for this thread, and that would be okay.

I recommend not to grant this request for martyrship.

Indeed it might be wise to get back at say the forthcoming WCh football again. But in the future Willempie and I might have to be a bit more careful using the nickname of Ajax-players.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #10 - 06/01/10 at 22:14:26
Post Tools
I will give this thread another 24 hours. 

After that time, I will probably close it because it seems to deal purely with religious issues in a tendentious manner.  Tony has clearly stated that is not his aim for this site.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nfinity
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Hello chess fiends!

Posts: 39
Joined: 01/28/10
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #9 - 06/01/10 at 21:59:18
Post Tools
I take issue with the idea that this video captures an "eloquent defense" of right to free speech.  He simply states "X is a right, Y isn't".  Perhaps a British accent and his pleasing voice make this seem more eloquent than it actually is.   

He is right, of course; we all agree on the right to read his book if you want to and the right to write your own book if you don't like his.  I'm not sure his point needed an eloquent defense as much as a reaffirmation of the rights he describes, which is exactly what he does.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #8 - 06/01/10 at 21:39:25
Post Tools
This place is mainly about chess.  Some of us here do come forth with other things, and I suppose I am much more vocal than most.  But it's mainly just to share one's interests and perspectives, not to get involved in a lengthy debate.

I didn't "bash Jesus," I just denied his divinity.  Sorry if it offends, but my personal take on this world is that there is neither soul nor god.  If you want to debate the matter at any length, we would do it on beliefnet better than here.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #7 - 06/01/10 at 19:40:59
Post Tools
Amazing, a pub full of blind men, who think they know everything...so smart at chess, yet so blind.  Mark, you criticize Jesus, and for what?  You read the accounts of his life, yet you dismiss it as nothing, and why?  You call Christians wackos, TN, yet no good reason for it.   

Guys, if you have to be afraid of religious posts, that is fine, but you do such a good job of bashing things you don't have a clue about.  Take a look around you...I guess you think you evolved from a monkey too, right?  Or maybe a bacterium?  Who made the world that you know?  I guess it just magically appeared.

I can get banned for this thread, and that would be okay.  I see it is okay to bash Jesus, but to support him is anti-social?  Please...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #6 - 06/01/10 at 17:44:32
Post Tools
Phillip Pullman, author of the brilliant His Dark Materials trilogy and notable enemy of religion, is pulling a few people's legs.

Just speaking for myself, an atheist, I deny Jesus as Christ and I don't care much about Jesus the man, about whom very little is known.  There are those whose brief against Christianity is so thoroughgoing that they deny that such a man existed.  Personally, I think that the preponderance of likelihood is that this Joshua bar Joseph existed and that he was some sort of charismatic, rabble-rousing preacher, and somehow managed to get himself crucified for it.  I can only speculate that he did claim to be the long-sought Messiah of the Jews, or at least refused to deny it.  Otherwise I am at a loss to understand how a Roman court could have meted out such an extreme judgment against him.
« Last Edit: 06/01/10 at 18:52:11 by Markovich »  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #5 - 05/31/10 at 13:00:16
Post Tools
Thanks, TN! You proved Cambridge U right! Cool
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #4 - 05/31/10 at 12:53:01
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/31/10 at 04:50:03:
I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. I watched the video and read about the book in question.

The right to speech and the right to publish a book is not in question.  The question is whether the ChessPub is an appropriate place for this.  I realise that there is currently a thread on Atlantis here.  I am tempted to merge the two threads. 

I look forward to feedback from other members before I decide.


Do not merge the two threads. One thread for wacko posters, funny jokes and historically unsubstantiated caterwauling just isn't enough.

Lev may be wrong but he'll always write - don't exorcise my right

I only use one finger to type my posts. No wonder I keep getting RSI. 

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

I siltl cna't wrok out waht on etarh tihs is soppeusd to maen. Any ieads? 

1.d4 c5?? 2.b4!! is a forced win for White. Ask my cat.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10775
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #3 - 05/31/10 at 10:38:04
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/31/10 at 04:50:03:
The right to speech and the right to publish a book is not in question.

For some people it is. I already know about the book since a couple of weeks thanks to the Dutch protestant newspaper I read on internet:

http://www.trouw.nl/religie-filosofie/opinie/article3031693.ece/Jezus_en_Christu...

The idea seems quite unoriginal.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Right to speech ...... An eloquent Defence !?
Reply #2 - 05/31/10 at 04:50:03
Post Tools
I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. I watched the video and read about the book in question.

The right to speech and the right to publish a book is not in question.  The question is whether the ChessPub is an appropriate place for this.  I realise that there is currently a thread on Atlantis here.  I am tempted to merge the two threads. 

I look forward to feedback from other members before I decide.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18] 19 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge