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Are you hinting at 7. Ne5 ?

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So do a lot of a Black players : 8. ...,Nb4

MNb wrote on 06/23/10 at 22:01:20:


I have never gotten into playing a4 in the Classical variation, I agree that it does not stop Black's queenside play and might help it. I think the key to the classical formation is to play for e4, and the quicker the better.

The true value of the Bird's Opening is that most opponents must "think". When I play 1 e4, I frequently debate Sicilian theory, and to be blunt, it is usually me that does not measure up. Besides, I dislike being a theory parrot. Instead, I find the following more fun:

[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2010.06.26"]
[White "drawyah"]
[Black "KingT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A02"]
[WhiteElo "2151"]
[BlackElo "2300"]
1. f4 Na6 2. Nf3 Nh6 3. e4 g6 4. d4 f6 5. Bd3 Bg7 6. c3 e6 7. O-O d6 8. f5 gxf5 9. exf5 e5 10. Bxh6 Bxh6 11. Kh1 O-O 12. Nbd2 c6 13. Nh4 Qe8 14. Ne4 d5 15. Nd6 Qe7 16. Qg4+ Bg7 17. dxe5 fxe5 18. Nxc8 Raxc8 19. Rae1 Nc7 20. f6 Qe6 21. Qxg7# 1-0

Here is an example of where having a3 available is helpful:

[Event "Midwest Masters"]
[Site "Chicago IL"]
[Date "1990.03.16"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Hayward, Keith"]
[Black "Taylor, Tim"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteElo "2311"]
[BlackElo "2476"]
1. f4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d3 Bg7 4. e4 Nc6 5. Be2 Nf6 6. O-O d6 7. Qe1 b5 8. Kh1 b4 9. a3 Bb7 10. axb4 Nxb4 11. Na3 O-O 12. e5 Nd7 13. d4 dxe5 14. dxe5 e6 15. c3 Nd5 16. Nc4 f6 17. exf6 Qxf6 18. Ng5 N7b6 19. Nd6 Bc6 20. Bg4 Nc7 21. Be3 Nbd5 22. Bxc5 Nxf4 23. Nde4 Qe5 24. Bd6 Nxg2 25. Qd2 Bxe4 26. Bxe5 Ne1+ 27. Kg1 1-0

Good Chess! Keith

Personally I like 7. a4. It counters the b5-ideas (compare with Dutch) and gets rid of the tempo in a useful way...
No big deal, but still...

JustGambling wrote on 06/21/10 at 11:00:48:

You know, when I first wrote that paragraph, I had the feeling some smart*** was going to make this type of comment. Taylor even said in the intro to his Bird's Opening book that the 1. f4 player will constantly get negative comments from other players about this opening, and it's definitely true. I've seen that already after only a couple of months playing it.

Linksspringer, thanks for those links. I only remember a little of the French that I learned in high school, but it may be enough to wade through that article, picking out moves, even if I can't understand all the comments. 

And again, that Peter Williams game didn't hit the critical line. I just think it's interesting that there seems to be a clear best reply by black that nobody has ever actually played. It may just be a case of this opening by white being infrequent enough that the best book line for black just hasn't reached the masses. Given that the corresponding line in the Classical Dutch is covered in both Williams' "Killer Dutch" DVD and the "Dangerous Weapons: Dutch" book, I suspect more people will figure it out soon, though.

Fromper wrote on 06/20/10 at 02:40:04:

Why u play 1.f4? then .......

Looking at IM Timothy Taylor's "Bird's Opening" book, he states that he's not really sure what white's best 7th move is in the main line after 1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 g6 4. Be2 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. d3 c5. He recommends avoiding the most popular older move, 7. Qe1, and gives 7. Nc3 as his personal choice. He also mentions 7. a4 as an option, and interestingly doesn't seem to mention 7. Ne5, though I haven't read the whole chapter from cover to cover, so I might have just missed it.

As a Classical Dutch player, I know that in the analogous position after 1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 e6 4. Bg2 Be7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 d6 7. Nc3, 7. ... Qe8 is also the old, most popular move that is no longer considered that great. But in the Dutch, 7. ... Nc6 is considered "slightly dubious", as GM Simon Williams says in his "Killer Dutch" DVD (while still recommending it as an occasional weapon for surprise value). 7. ... Ne4 and 7. ... a5 are also considered decent options, so the options between the Bird and Dutch versions of this line are obviously pretty similar.

What I'm trying to figure out is why Taylor likes 7. Nc3 so much, when it's considered so inferior in the analogous Dutch line. It seems to have pretty much the same drawback in both, despite black not having his knight on c6 yet in the Bird version, so I'm trying to see how the extra tempo helps white that much in the Bird. 

In the Dutch, the critical line after 7. ... Nc6 is 8. d5 Ne5 9. Nd4 Nxc4 and white will capture the e6 pawn next. 

The similar line in the Bird is 7. Nc3 d4 8. Ne4 and Taylor says "Evidently critical is the unexplored 8. ... Nd5", but then states that he couldn't find any games where black played that. I just checked, and I couldn't find any games that continued that way, either. Could it be that Taylor's just assuming 7. Nc3 works because nobody has actually played the most testing continuation, even though it seems apparent that 8. ... Nd5 messes up white's plans? Or is there a concrete reason that this line is so much better for white in the Bird than it is for black in the Dutch?

I just hate the idea of playing moves that I know are inferior, even if most opponents aren't that likely to find the "refutation". I'm one of those people who thinks Chess should always be about trying to find the best possible move, and assuming your opponent will find the best move, too. So the concept of "rolling the dice" on an inferior move in the hopes that the opponent won't figure it out just isn't my style.