(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Other › Endgames › Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
(Moderators: Jupp53, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Normal Topic Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation (Read 4343 times)
Papageno
Senior Member
****
Offline


FM

Posts: 299
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/12/08
Gender: Male
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #7 - 07/28/10 at 11:50:05
Post Tools
Oops, well yes, that's too true. So there is more than one solution to this position.

I enjoyed Giri's game continuation which went
39. Ke2 Ke6 40. Kd3 Kf5 41. Kc3 Kf6 42. Kc2 Ke6 43. Kd2 Kf6 44. Kc3 1-0
My impression was that Giri made use of a the set of corresponding squares
* c4 or c2 vs. e6
* d3 vs. f5
* c3 vs. f6
and while the black king could only walk on these three squares (e6-f5-f6), the white king has four adjacent squares (d2-c2-c3-d3) to manoeuvre. This way Giri reaches the position with Kc4 vs. Ke6 with Black to move, thus he gets his d4-d5 for free (and not as a temporary pawn sac which also is winning but slightly more complicated).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3192
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #6 - 07/28/10 at 11:18:39
Post Tools
Papageno wrote on 07/28/10 at 09:54:54:

This is the game Giri-So, Biel 2010, after move 38.

Surely everything wins here? I mean, there is no need to be fancy when you can just put your king on c4 and play d5+, creating a passed pawn?!
  
Back to top
WWWFacebookTwitter  
IP Logged
 
Papageno
Senior Member
****
Offline


FM

Posts: 299
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/12/08
Gender: Male
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #5 - 07/28/10 at 09:54:54
Post Tools
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
This is the game Giri-So, Biel 2010, after move 38.
(I'll follow up with the solution in a few hours.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Girkassa
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 433
Joined: 04/07/07
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #4 - 07/19/10 at 15:14:20
Post Tools
Regarding the original question,

Quote:
My question is in terms of recognising when to triangulate. Is if it is best to ask oneself "what if it was my opponent's move now?" in order to know if one needs to triangulate or is there a better way of actually spotting it?


I would say "yes." Triangulation is pointless unless it puts your opponent in zugzwang. If it's your turn and you discover that your opponent would be in zugzwang, but it's hard for you to make a move that keeps the zugzwang, I'd try to find a way to "lose a move," e.g. by triangulation.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #3 - 07/16/10 at 12:13:14
Post Tools
Several old (30+) endgame books generalize the concept to conjugates of order 1,2,...n, which can give a clear view of the process. Perhaps Villeneuve has it ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChessWizz
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 25
Joined: 07/05/10
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #2 - 07/12/10 at 04:59:21
Post Tools
Thank you Smyslov_Fan. I've been studying this endgame now for a while using tablebases and I don't think its too difficult to comprehend. It seems most important to remember that if the defending side keeps his pawn on the second rank its always a draw otherwise the stronger side generally wins by advancing the pawn and if necessary triangulates. The exception is sometimes when the defending sides pawn is far advanced he can draw reach drawn K+Q vs. K+Q ending. But since you mentioned Speelman devoted a full chapter to this ending it is probably a fine idea to see if there is something I missed.

At any rate, by studying these positions I think I have got the a basic hang of triangulation Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
Reply #1 - 07/11/10 at 22:26:04
Post Tools
Jonathan Speelman spent a full chapter in his Analysing the Endgame on this ending.  This is also covered in many endgame books. 

This may be an "elementary pawn endgame" in the sense that there is little material. But it is very complex.

In this case, you'll probably be better reading the books than posting here.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChessWizz
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 25
Joined: 07/05/10
Elementary pawn endgames: triangulation
07/11/10 at 15:43:12
Post Tools
I understand triangulation like this. King A makes 3 moves within in a triangle whereas King B is forced to limit itself to moving between only two squares and as a result ends up on a different square than it started on. It is forced because of a number of reasons. E.g. pawns are limiting the king, the king has to be inside the square of the pawn and so on.

My question is in terms of recognising when to triangulate. Is if it is best to ask oneself "what if it was my opponent's move now?" in order to know if one needs to triangulate or is there a better way of actually spotting it?

These are two examples I had difficulties with before I was given a hint of using triangulation. 

White moves
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

White moves
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Many thanks
/Wizz
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge