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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Learning the Slav (Read 16515 times)
cma6
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #25 - 08/17/10 at 02:41:40
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An older one from Vera, Chess Explained: the Meran Semi Slav (1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5.e3).

Do you have any more up-to-date recommendations on the, Meran? As White, I'm especially concerned with this move order, e.g, 1 d4, d5; 2 c4, e6; 3 Nc3, c6; 4 Nf3, Nf6; 5 e3
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #24 - 08/15/10 at 01:06:35
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yankdog wrote on 08/14/10 at 23:13:37:
Volcanor wrote on 07/19/10 at 15:55:10:
@ Kobesarmy: I would first read Starting Out: Slav & Semi-Slav from Flear. It's a nice book explaining the main ideas and lines of both openings (plus a small part on the 4...a6 Slav). It gives you a taste if you like the opening or not; and if you like it, which one of the 3 system.

If you already made up your mind with the 4...dxc4 Slav, you can probably skip the Flear book. I would then recommand 2 books: the Vigus book discussed previously (an excellent repertoire book), and also Vigorito's book Chess Explained, The Main-Line Slav. It's not a repertoire book and gives an excellent overview of the 4...dxc4 Slav (without any coverage of the Slow Slav and the Exchange Slav). Both books are very complementary.

Slav players can be happy: there are a lot of great books to choose from!


Yes, this is the book I have now and reading it over.  I am a former KID player but now that I am facing people who have studied it more closely I am finding it hard to get good practical results with it.  So the Slav is a good balance between wanting an active game and not wanting to have to study reams of theory to avoid getting crushed on the queenside (or sometimes kingside) in the KID.



To be honest, you are probably better off fixing the holes in your KID then taking up a whole new opening. Also as someone who plays 1. d4 and the slav, you see the Slav ALOT more the KID. So most people are more prepared for the Slav. It is easier to find a niche survivable line in the KID than to find a hidden Slav line players haven't seen.
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #23 - 08/14/10 at 23:13:37
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Volcanor wrote on 07/19/10 at 15:55:10:
@ Kobesarmy: I would first read Starting Out: Slav & Semi-Slav from Flear. It's a nice book explaining the main ideas and lines of both openings (plus a small part on the 4...a6 Slav). It gives you a taste if you like the opening or not; and if you like it, which one of the 3 system.

If you already made up your mind with the 4...dxc4 Slav, you can probably skip the Flear book. I would then recommand 2 books: the Vigus book discussed previously (an excellent repertoire book), and also Vigorito's book Chess Explained, The Main-Line Slav. It's not a repertoire book and gives an excellent overview of the 4...dxc4 Slav (without any coverage of the Slow Slav and the Exchange Slav). Both books are very complementary.

Slav players can be happy: there are a lot of great books to choose from!


Yes, this is the book I have now and reading it over.  I am a former KID player but now that I am facing people who have studied it more closely I am finding it hard to get good practical results with it.  So the Slav is a good balance between wanting an active game and not wanting to have to study reams of theory to avoid getting crushed on the queenside (or sometimes kingside) in the KID.
  
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kobesarmy
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #22 - 07/26/10 at 03:18:43
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yeah i'm trying to get my hands on the books, but until then....i'll prolly use adatabase etc.


i'm 1900+ on ICC 5-minute and Standard, mostly over 1950, but i don't play much USCF, so it's 1669 and Q: 1841
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #21 - 07/25/10 at 20:35:05
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kylemeister wrote on 07/25/10 at 20:04:31:
Well, this is the sort of thing books are good for ...

As far as I know, ...Bg6 (in the first instance putting pressure on the e4-pawn) is more highly regarded than ...Bg4 there.  Generally White soon plays e5, lest Black play ...e5 (aided by moves such as ...Bh5 and ...Re8); Black responds with ...Nd5, which White meets with Nxd5 (producing a sort of French structure) or Ne4 (with a sort of dueling-outposts situation).  This is a major, classic sort of line which is generally regarded as leading to even chances.



Read Sadler - all will be revealed, I promise.

However, Gruenfeld to Slav is a big change of style. You might want to reconsider this. How strong are you and what sort of game do you prefer?
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #20 - 07/25/10 at 20:04:31
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Well, this is the sort of thing books are good for ...

As far as I know, ...Bg6 (in the first instance putting pressure on the e4-pawn) is more highly regarded than ...Bg4 there.  Generally White soon plays e5, lest Black play ...e5 (aided by moves such as ...Bh5 and ...Re8); Black responds with ...Nd5, which White meets with Nxd5 (producing a sort of French structure) or Ne4 (with a sort of dueling-outposts situation).  This is a major, classic sort of line which is generally regarded as leading to even chances.

  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #19 - 07/25/10 at 19:34:55
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Yeah true, he was an IM at the time and it was more of a surprise weapon, he faltered in a few games against NMs and under when his opponents played fairly accurately, I might take a look at the opening though,


The reason I bring this line up is I'm not seeing black's equality in this line: 1.d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 dxc4 5. a4 Bf5 6. e3 e6 7. Bxc4 Bb4 8. 0-0 Nbd7 9. Qe2 0-0 10. e4   And after Bg4 h3 etc. I'm not seeing where black's play is? maybe an eventual e5 break, but i don't see how black is giving white too much trouble
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #18 - 07/25/10 at 19:16:09
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kylemeister wrote on 07/25/10 at 15:48:24:
BPaulsen wrote on 07/25/10 at 06:55:15:

Even if he did beat Nakamura with it, it doesn't mean it was owing to the opening itself.  A lot of lines provide significant shock value when it comes time to handle them over the board.


Certainly.  I was mainly wondering if it was in fact a tournament game, since I didn't see it in online databases.

I was reminded of a game in the first round of an open tournament last year, in which a GM faced 4...Bf5 from an opponent rated in the 1800s.  I can imagine the GM thinking, "I haven't faced this since forever.  Was I supposed to play cd or immediate Qb3?  Or are they equally good?  Surely this opponent is rated high enough to be aware of what he is doing on move 4.  Is there some recent tricky stuff published somewhere?".  He played 5. e3; he sometimes played the Slow Slav in any case. 


The source of any recent interest is Lenderman's stuff at ICC/chess fm, but he was young then and not even IM, I don't think. I guess he was playing it on line a lot and found some trappy lines where he gained comp for a pawn, but to judge from the databases he doesn't play it any longer.
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #17 - 07/25/10 at 15:48:24
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BPaulsen wrote on 07/25/10 at 06:55:15:

Even if he did beat Nakamura with it, it doesn't mean it was owing to the opening itself.  A lot of lines provide significant shock value when it comes time to handle them over the board.


Certainly.  I was mainly wondering if it was in fact a tournament game, since I didn't see it in online databases.

I was reminded of a game in the first round of an open tournament last year, in which a GM faced 4...Bf5 from an opponent rated in the 1800s.  I can imagine the GM thinking, "I haven't faced this since forever.  Was I supposed to play cd or immediate Qb3?  Or are they equally good?  Surely this opponent is rated high enough to be aware of what he is doing on move 4.  Is there some recent tricky stuff published somewhere?".  He played 5. e3; he sometimes played the Slow Slav in any case. 
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #16 - 07/25/10 at 09:14:14
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BPaulsen wrote on 07/25/10 at 06:55:15:
kylemeister wrote on 07/25/10 at 03:07:58:
At what tournament did Lenderman beat Nakamura with this?

It seems that 4...Bf5 is playable, but it's part of the basic theory of the Slav that it is suboptimal and that White should get some advantage.  I would doubt that Lenderman has overturned this in a video.


Even if he did beat Nakamura with it, it doesn't mean it was owing to the opening itself.  A lot of lines provide significant shock value when it comes time to handle them over the board.

I sincerely doubt that Lenderman has overturned existing theory on this line. I won't overstate white's advantage (it's small, so black is playable, much like it's quite small in the 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. c4 Symmetrical Defense, and 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Bf5 Baltic Defense), but it is more apparent than in traditional Slavs where one is often left wondering if there's an edge at all.


This is good advice. Lenderman's lectures are quite old now and it is notable that in all his serious recent games as Black in the Slav he has played either 4...a6 or the main line 4...dxc4. By all means analyse and mess around with 4...Bf5; it will help you understand why no professional GMs have it in their repertoire!

For learning the Slav, I always recommend starting with GM Matthew Sadler's "The Slav" - quite old now but one of the very best opening books you will ever read! From there I would move straight on to Vigus.

Good luck!
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #15 - 07/25/10 at 06:55:15
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kylemeister wrote on 07/25/10 at 03:07:58:
At what tournament did Lenderman beat Nakamura with this?

It seems that 4...Bf5 is playable, but it's part of the basic theory of the Slav that it is suboptimal and that White should get some advantage.  I would doubt that Lenderman has overturned this in a video.


Even if he did beat Nakamura with it, it doesn't mean it was owing to the opening itself.  A lot of lines provide significant shock value when it comes time to handle them over the board.

I sincerely doubt that Lenderman has overturned existing theory on this line. I won't overstate white's advantage (it's small, so black is playable, much like it's quite small in the 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. c4 Symmetrical Defense, and 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Bf5 Baltic Defense), but it is more apparent than in traditional Slavs where one is often left wondering if there's an edge at all.
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #14 - 07/25/10 at 03:19:08
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http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm/index/lenderman/index.html ;  has the links to the videos, idk, maybe it's not so good, but the lines that he has shown seems fine to me.

I can't seem to find the game on chessgames.com, but in the lecture he said it was December 2007 St. John's Masters
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #13 - 07/25/10 at 03:07:58
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At what tournament did Lenderman beat Nakamura with this?

It seems that 4...Bf5 is playable, but it's part of the basic theory of the Slav that it is suboptimal and that White should get some advantage.  I would doubt that Lenderman has overturned this in a video.
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #12 - 07/25/10 at 02:35:58
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i was just watching GM Alex Lenderman's lectures on the Slav, and he recommended Bf5, he had Qb6 after Qb3 and gave lots of other variations after where he claimed was fine....he even beat Naka in the line so it must be okay?
  
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Re: Learning the Slav
Reply #11 - 07/25/10 at 02:29:25
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kobesarmy wrote on 07/25/10 at 02:03:06:
cool great, i'm trying to check it out

I'm actually considering playing 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bf5    What do you guys think of that line? I'm a little iffy on the 4....dxc4 5. e3 line after e6 eventually white moves the queen and pushes e4 and i feel kinda weird


4...Bf5 is a known inaccuracy that leads to an easy white edge after 5. cxd5 (if 5...cxd5 then 6. Qb3 poses problems for black, and 5...Nxd5 surrenders the central majority without any benefits unlike 4...dxc4 5. a4 Bf5 where white has weakened b4).
  
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