(UTC)
(Moderator: MNb)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Unusual moves (Read 6901 times)
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1839
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #10 - 09/24/10 at 09:44:17
Post Tools
About Qe2, computer understimates it at first sight and white appears to get the more active position. Still Bg7 is playable but objetivetlys speaking Nc6 is a better move (but Dragon lines and objetivetly are seldom the same thing).
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1839
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #9 - 09/16/10 at 08:50:05
Post Tools
About Qe2 in Levenfish line I have never meet or analysed it yet. I will have a look next week. The idea of playing Bg7 instead of mainline Nc6 is to create more winning chanses by creating chaos in the position (in 9 e6 line objectly the position is of course equal, not black advantage as long as black does not manage to exchange too many pieces, like the Queens), unless I missremember the postions after Nc6 are pretty dull.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #8 - 09/15/10 at 14:01:04
Post Tools
thibdb13 wrote on 09/15/10 at 10:46:15:
After 6.f4 (Levenfish attack), black can play Bg7, if white goes for 7.e5, than you have: 7...-Nh5 8.Bb5-Bd7 9.e6-fe6 10.Ne6-Bc3 11.bc3-Qc8 and black has very good perspectives

De logical 12.Qd3 looks about equal to me.
I agree that 9.Qe2 promises an advantage.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #7 - 09/15/10 at 13:36:53
Post Tools
bragesjo wrote on 09/15/10 at 12:44:53:
Quote:

After 6.f4 (Levenfish attack), black can play Bg7, if white goes for 7.e5, than you have: 7...-Nh5 8.Bb5-Bd7 9.e6-fe6 10.Ne6-Bc3 11.bc3-Qc8 and black has very good perspectives


This is my black favorite line in the entire Dragon becouse it does not look correct but is fullyplayable and underestimated by all books.


What about 9.Qe2? 

The 6...Bg7 line isn't terrible for Black, but there's no reason to head into this line when both 6...Nc6 and 6...Nbd7 equalise on the spot.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bragesjo
God Member
*****
Offline


CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM
at ICCF 2023

Posts: 1839
Location: Eskilstuna
Joined: 06/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #6 - 09/15/10 at 12:44:53
Post Tools
Quote:

After 6.f4 (Levenfish attack), black can play Bg7, if white goes for 7.e5, than you have: 7...-Nh5 8.Bb5-Bd7 9.e6-fe6 10.Ne6-Bc3 11.bc3-Qc8 and black has very good perspectives


This is my black favorite line in the entire Dragon becouse it does not look correct but is fullyplayable and underestimated by all books.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual Moves
Reply #5 - 09/15/10 at 11:41:06
Post Tools
White keeps the advantage with 9.Qe2, for example 9...Bb5 (9...e6?! 10.Nf3 is much better for White) 10.Qb5 Qd7 11.Qd7 Nd7 12.g4! Nf4 13.Bf4 de5 14.Ndb5! Rc8 15.Bd2 and Black doesn't have enough for the piece. 

Edit: I just found the following article: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/abby02.pdf, which agrees that White should be better after 9.Qe2. Black's best move is 9...a6, but I agree with Marshall that 10.Bc4 Nc6 11.Nc6 Bc6 12.0-0 gives White a small edge.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #4 - 09/15/10 at 10:46:15
Post Tools
TN wrote on 09/15/10 at 03:31:09:
The reason Black should castle before playing ...Ng4 is because 7...Ng4?! runs into 8.Bb5! Kf8 9.Bg1 e5 10.fe5 Be5 11.Qd3 with a slight edge for White since Black's king has been inconvenienced.

Also note that after 6.f4, Black should play not 6...Bg7?! 7.e5! (idea 7...de5 8.Bb5 Kf8 9.Ne6), but 6...Nbd7 or 6...Nc6. 

Edit: Should be 7...de5 8.fe5 Nh5 9.Bb5 Kf8 10.Ne6. Sometimes my memory plays tricks on me.  Grin

After 6.f4 (Levenfish attack), black can play Bg7, if white goes for 7.e5, than you have: 7...-Nh5 8.Bb5-Bd7 9.e6-fe6 10.Ne6-Bc3 11.bc3-Qc8 and black has very good perspectives
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4989
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #3 - 09/15/10 at 04:00:07
Post Tools
After 6...Bg7 7. e5 de standard is 8. fe; on 8. Bb5+ there would be 8...Nfd7.
 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #2 - 09/15/10 at 03:31:09
Post Tools
The reason Black should castle before playing ...Ng4 is because 7...Ng4?! runs into 8.Bb5! Kf8 9.Bg1 e5 10.fe5 Be5 11.Qd3 with a slight edge for White since Black's king has been inconvenienced.

Also note that after 6.f4, Black should play not 6...Bg7?! 7.e5! (idea 7...de5 8.Bb5 Kf8 9.Ne6), but 6...Nbd7 or 6...Nc6. 

Edit: Should be 7...de5 8.fe5 Nh5 9.Bb5 Kf8 10.Ne6. Sometimes my memory plays tricks on me.  Grin
« Last Edit: 09/15/10 at 05:47:35 by TN »  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10780
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Unusual moves
Reply #1 - 09/14/10 at 20:24:21
Post Tools
If you call everything but the Jugoslav Attack and the Classcal offbeat I suppose Gufeld's The Complete Dragon fulfills your description. It doesn't have a particular good reputation, but it works as an overview for me.
Regarding 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f4 I would say that this tends to transpose to well known stuff after 7...0-0 and 8...Nc6. If White doesn't play Bf1-e2 (which will lead to an inferior version of the Classical) Black should consider ...Nf6-g4.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RVergara
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 4
Joined: 03/15/10
Unusual moves
09/14/10 at 17:15:54
Post Tools
Hello,
I have been reading the Dragon section for some time and trying to learn from it, and it has certainly helped. But there is a topic I don't see covered, and probably because it's quite vast and perhaps sort of obvious for more experienced chess players: early out-of-mainline moves.

For example, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f4

A while ago, I bought a book on a different opening which covered the common variations, and had these few sections on unusual moves. These unusual moves turn out to be what has came up in my games more often than anything else and the book helped me a lot with that, and I would love to have this information for the Dragon.

Does anyone know of a resource like this for the Dragon?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge