know any world class pianist who began to play the piano for real in his mid-twentys?

k, we don't talk of word class now ...
tbh. I don't know the musical department that well, but you also need to be really good to be a professional player of a big and known assemble in classical concerts ...), and I really mean big and known like an assembly of a big city with > 500000 inhabitants ... if you weren't in these music schools and received training from 6 years onwards chances are slim you can begin with 21 and make it there ...

or let's take swimming, I was in a swimmingcourse once for learning swimming-techniques like crawl, butterfly, etc. for adults ... on the side the trainer stated they wouldn't take any 10 year old children in their club for regular training because they were simply to old to integrate them (they train the children to win swimming competitions in their agegroups) ...

isn't there some statement in chess? Usually IM's began with 12, GM's with 7? Age matters ...

Still I'd say it *is* possible to get to GM level with 20+ from a 2000 rating, but only if the guy is extremely talented, motivated and can devote all his time and energy to it. With Fulltime-study/Job aside, this is not possible.

ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 10/11/10 at 17:24:41:

Klovans became IM another time than now, back then the IM title meant more then the GM title today ...
that is also why he achieved the GM title with 62.
ratinginflation allowed him to get the gm title with worse play than in his golden chess times. You think he was a better player with 62 than in his mid20s-mid30s? Definately not!

And this 21 year old guy is just too old, he should change his goal to FM title, and should be already glad if gets just this one, this dude doesn't understand it gets harder and harder to get better the farer you climb up and the more age you have, and there is also something like talent, capacity to work and love for the game, there is a reason he is now 1900 and not 2300-2400 like other "late" GM's ... 

LeeRoth wrote on 10/11/10 at 01:26:33:

Stigma wrote on 10/11/10 at 13:36:10:


Erm, yeah, I know both Danny and Simon, which is why it would have been inappropriate for me to reply to Akita! Imagine a pint or two and daily viewing of Countdown cannot do too much harm...

chezzter wrote on 10/11/10 at 11:53:09:


Two dozen trees. 

Chess Openings for White/Black Explained

TN wrote on 10/11/10 at 09:55:26:


Both COBE and COWE are a must for every chess player, according to Karpov

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/11/10 at 05:23:50:


...and noone wants to be dzinzi. Someone take pity on him, give him a bath, a haircut and take him shopping. Poor fella. In return he can promise to quit the one-hour-missingbits-chessvid game. 

Of course, after all the talk, they are only titles after all. I've seen so many talented juniors give up tournament chess in their 20s and it wasn't due to lack of ability. I think someone can take a long route to GM, but there's no way it's going to be easy.