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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C15: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit vs French Defence (Read 69728 times)
Gambit
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Re: C15: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit vs French Defence
Reply #68 - 01/09/12 at 18:49:26
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I am playing a correspondence game with the Winckelmann-Reimer Gambit, 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 a3 Bxc3 5 bxc3 dxe4 6 f3!  My opponent answered 6...c5!? and the game is still in progress.
I have a Bishop for three pawns, with Rooks on the board. Will let you know the game score once I am finished playing.

By the way, I recently purchased the second volume of Winckelmann-Reimer-Gambit (1998) by Thomas Winckelmann. It is an updated and expanded edition of the 1995 edition.
  
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MNb
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #67 - 04/27/11 at 11:35:46
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Black has 7...Qa5. It doesn't transpose though to the Anti-Geller 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4 cxd4 8.Bd3 Qa5, which is superior to Qc7.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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dom
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #66 - 04/27/11 at 07:24:33
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Not to be forgotten: Geller's gambit 7.e5 after 5..Ne7 6.Bd3 c5 ... which in fact is position of the PP Winawer line after 7... Qc7 8.Qg4
  
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dom
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #65 - 04/27/11 at 07:07:53
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MNb wrote on 04/24/11 at 21:37:37:
MNb wrote on 03/09/11 at 14:10:37:
After 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Ne7 Moskalenko in the Wonderful Winawer gives 6.Bd3 c5 7.exd5 exd5 (Nxd5 8.Qg4) 8.dxc5 with some advantage, Kuzmin-Chernin, USSR 1984.


I have recorded:

8.dxc5 Nd7! 9.Be3 Qc7 (9...Qa5  10.Ne2 Nxc5 11.oo oo 12.Qb1 Ne4 13.c4 Nf5 14.cxd5 Nxe3 15.fxe3 Qc5 16.Bxe4 Qxe3+ 17.Rf2 Qxe4 18.Nf4 b6 19.Qb4 Re8 20.Re2 Qxb4 Anjuhin-Shalaev,Novaya Ladoga  2008 1-0) 10.Qg4 Nxc5 11.Qxg7 Nxd3+ 12.cxd3 Rg8=

   looks like an easy draw for Black if he chooses to play with Qc7  (for Qa5,not so easy because White has one common idea to play Qb4 after Qb1, with the idea of pressure on b file and improving structure if Black dares to play Qxb4). At the end, White queen caanot leaves the c3-h8  diagonal then rook moves along the g file is enough)

8.dxc5 Qa5 9.Ne2 Nd7 and here White can transposes to the IM game quoted above. 

For  10.Rb1  see Berg-Hansen,Taastrup 1990 (Tiemann) Sariego-Arencibia,Bayamo 1990 (Watson)  and Djuric, Stefan-Fraser Mitchell, J.M. Genova ITA, 7th Open 
1-0 Genova ITA, Round 1 20030802 ; Plachetka, Jan-Dvorak, Jan Stare Mesto CZE, Open 2005 
1-0 Stare Mesto CZE Round 7 20050817
  
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cynima
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #64 - 04/25/11 at 00:37:07
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MNb wrote on 04/24/11 at 21:37:37:
MNb wrote on 03/09/11 at 14:10:37:
After 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Ne7 Moskalenko in the Wonderful Winawer gives 6.Bd3 c5 7.exd5 exd5 (Nxd5 8.Qg4) 8.dxc5 with some advantage, Kuzmin-Chernin, USSR 1984.


Well, I do not think that white is better here, after 8.dxc5 I think black is equal and I like his position
Simply 5. ...Ne7!
  
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #63 - 04/24/11 at 22:02:35
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I notice that Nunn thought 8...Qa5 9. Ne2 Nd7 (iso Chernin's 9...0-0) to be unclear.
  
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MNb
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #62 - 04/24/11 at 21:37:37
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MNb wrote on 03/09/11 at 14:10:37:
After 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Ne7 Moskalenko in the Wonderful Winawer gives 6.Bd3 c5 7.exd5 exd5 (Nxd5 8.Qg4) 8.dxc5 with some advantage, Kuzmin-Chernin, USSR 1984.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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cynima
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #61 - 04/24/11 at 20:25:29
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With black I play 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3 5.bxc3 Ne7

Even the WRG is objective =+ or = if Black knows what to do, I do not understand why I should learn this stuff ...

6.e5 is the mainline
6.Bd3 seems to be no problem for black

Are there any disadvantages for black with 5. ...Ne7?
  
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MNb
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #60 - 03/10/11 at 10:51:24
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flaviddude wrote on 03/10/11 at 05:44:29:
Hi I hope that you all noted that Tom Winkelmann had a tremendous result in the 37th ICCF world Correspondence Championship.


I did. Perhaps his result was because he didn't play his own gambit.
The structure of the site looks fine.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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flaviddude
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #59 - 03/10/11 at 05:44:29
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Hi I hope that you all noted that Tom Winkelmann had a tremendous result in the 37th ICCF world Correspondence Championship.
  
I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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flaviddude
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whoops
Reply #58 - 03/10/11 at 05:42:58
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web site has a .org suffix not a .com suffix.
  
I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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flaviddude
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #57 - 03/10/11 at 05:41:40
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flaviddude wrote on 03/08/11 at 10:33:54:
I plan to reinstate the web site and database of games as follows.



    [LI] purchase a new web site - 23.3.2011[/LI]
    [LI] put existing website onto new web site 30.3.2011[/LI]
    [LI] update website with all new games that I can find 7.4.2011[/LI]
    [LI] rebuild web site using CSS scripts so that it looks much more modern 31.5.2011 [/LI]




Website purchased http://www.winkelmannreimergambit.com It may be a few days before this appears on search engines

Existing website uploaded.

I have found many more games to add and then I must clean up the database. 

Do not hesitate to send me new games to davidflude@pacific.net.au   
  
I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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MNb
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #56 - 03/09/11 at 20:26:11
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Sure I will give him all the time he needs, like I gave it to you. I am a patient guy. Be sure I will visit his website.
Regarding the "correct play" argument - you are right. But it isn't by far enough reason to "shut up those who say 6...c5 and 6...Bd7 are refutations." I certainly won't.
Personally I very much like the manoeuvre Bc8-d7-c6xe4-g6 - easy to remember as well. Possibly White has to trow Rb1 somewhere. Retreating the Bishop to c6 is also possible. Compared to the Euwe Defence of the BDG White's King's Knight is badly placed. To organize the Studier Attack (Qd1-e1-h4 etc.) it has to retreat to f3, when White has lost several tempi.
6...c5 is more complicated.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #55 - 03/09/11 at 17:43:49
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I can find the games, just don't have enough time to post them here. Not sure if 7 Qd2 is the correct move here, though. As for correct play, well, in OTB  chess that does not occur often, so White has chances. Correspondence is something else, when players can ask computers for answers.

Flude should be able to post stuff soon enough. Give him time.
  
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MNb
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Re: Wickelmann-Reimer Gambit versus French Defence
Reply #54 - 03/09/11 at 14:10:37
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Gambit wrote on 03/09/11 at 03:32:07:
See if you can shut up these who say 6...c5 and 6...Bd7 are "refutations" of the WRG.

Because you can't? Btw I would be glad to get shut up, as I would like to play the WRG. In fact I played it long before you had even heard of it. I just don't close my eyes like you do for the fact that with correct play both 6...c5 and 6...Bd7 gives Black some advantage. Unless someone (apparently that won't be you) shows up with an improvement of course.

Regarding that game Schmid-Magnussen, Black should not have taken the pawn on f3, something you failed to notice.



Sprotte,N (2225) - Kraemer,S [C15]
Bad Aibling op 46th Bad Aibling (2), 1997

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 dxe4 6.f3 c5 7.Qd2 Nc6 8.Bb2 Nf6 9.0-0-0 Qa5 10.Qg5 0-0 11.dxc5 Nd7 12.c4 f6 13.Qe3 Nxc5 14.fxe4 e5 15.Rd5 b6 16.Nf3 Ne7 17.Rd1 Be6 18.h3 Rfd8 19.Be2 Qa4 20.Nd2 Nc6 21.g4 Nd4 22.Bxd4 exd4 23.Qg3 d3 24.cxd3 Qxa3+ 25.Kc2 Qa2+ 26.Kc1 Na4 27.Rdf1 Qb2+ 28.Kd1 Nc3+ 29.Ke1 Qxd2+ 0-1

Anther notable game:

Moser,E (2223) - Jurek,J (2336) [C15]
Danube op-8 Aschach (7), 30.12.1999

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 dxe4 6.f3 c5 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.Bb2 Nbd7 9.0-0-0 0-0 10.Qe1 Qc7 11.Nh3 e3 12.Qxe3 Nd5 13.Qe4 c4 14.Re1 b5 15.Ng5 N7f6 16.Qh4 a5 17.Ne4 b4 18.Qg3 Qc6 19.Qd6 Qxd6 20.Nxd6 bxc3 21.Ba1 Ba6 22.Bxc4 Bxc4 23.Nxc4 Rab8 24.g3 a4 25.Kd1 Rfc8 26.Ne5 Ne3+ 27.Kc1 Nfd5 28.Re2 Rb7 29.Rhe1 Nf5 30.Re4 Rcb8 0-1

It looks like David Flude has some work to do before fulfilling your wish.

I have some good news for you as well. After 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Ne7 Moskalenko in the Wonderful Winawer gives 6.Bd3 c5 7.exd5 exd5 (Nxd5 8.Qg4) 8.dxc5 with some advantage, Kuzmin-Chernin, USSR 1984.

Gambit wrote on 12/15/10 at 17:01:19:
I have to agree with this assessment. The move 5...Ne7 just avoids the WRG, but 6 e5 is good for White.

So White better should follow Hehmer's advise than yours.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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