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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6 (Read 17846 times)
nimzo5
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #33 - 05/30/11 at 13:44:26
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Black should have a small edge in that line after 6... axb5 7. exf6 Nc6.
  

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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #32 - 05/21/11 at 21:44:24
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The equivalent line with 2. Nf3 (2...g6 3. d4 cd 4. Qxd4 Nf6 5. Bb5) was an idea of Bronstein's which I think was for a long time considered slightly better for White, though I have the impression that it isn't in favor these days.
  
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #31 - 05/21/11 at 21:37:26
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Stigma wrote on 04/24/11 at 18:12:55:
After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6, 5.Nc3 and 5.e5 are really two independent and very different lines.

If the consensus here is 5.Nc3 is critical, that is also of interest to Grand Prix Attack or Closed Sicilian players, who can try the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6!? (avoiding 2...Nc6 3.Bb5!?) 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Nf3.



I haven't seen mentioned in this thread the line:  1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6!? 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Bb5 a6 6. e5

It's mentioned in my MCO-13...is it really not very good?  I've played it a few times.  I'm assuming a similar variation could be used with 2. Nf3?

Thanks.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #30 - 05/11/11 at 17:41:52
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topandkas wrote on 05/09/11 at 03:11:24:
According to my analysis White is the one who needs to be careful after 9.Nc4 (main line goes: 9...Ng4 10.Be3 Nxe3 11.fxe3 Qc5  12.Nb5 Bh6! 13.Nc7+ Kf8 14. Nxa8 Bxe3 15.Qa3 (15. Nxe3?! Qxe3+ 16.Be2? Nd4 17.Qc4 Bf5! -+) Bf2+ 16.Kd1 Qg5 with good compensation for Black. 
...so I for one dont think this is a way to play for a win with White. Im curious as to how Ametanoitos thinks White is better after 7.e5 dxe5 8.Ne5 Qd4


Well I'm actually the one that mentioned 9.Nc4 so perhaps Ametanoitos was talking about another variation. Your analysis seems correct to me, in fact I'd rather be Black.  There's the more sedate 9.Nxc6 variation which results in Black having an isolated c-pawn.  Is there anything to that?
  
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topandkas
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #29 - 05/09/11 at 03:23:59
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Btw, I agree that the endgame resulting after 9.Nxc6 Qxa4 10.Nxa4 bxc6 should be ever so sligthly better for White, but I have hard time believing that this should scare Black away from playing 2...g6. Black seems to be in absolutely fine shape here, so maybe 5.e5 is better afterall, but even here im not really convinced...
  
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topandkas
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #28 - 05/09/11 at 03:11:24
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According to my analysis White is the one who needs to be careful after 9.Nc4 (main line goes: 9...Ng4 10.Be3 Nxe3 11.fxe3 Qc5  12.Nb5 Bh6! 13.Nc7+ Kf8 14. Nxa8 Bxe3 15.Qa3 (15. Nxe3?! Qxe3+ 16.Be2? Nd4 17.Qc4 Bf5! -+) Bf2+ 16.Kd1 Qg5 with good compensation for Black. 
...so I for one dont think this is a way to play for a win with White. Im curious as to how Ametanoitos thinks White is better after 7.e5 dxe5 8.Ne5 Qd4
  
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #27 - 04/28/11 at 06:30:38
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I got the right guy, the game is even on the base, but indeed I could not find any game of him playing 2.Nc3 Nc6 Bb5. I don't know why but when he was in front of me I was sure I had seen him playing that line. Maybe I was just wrong. But this is not clear at all that:

-2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 is bad for Black
-2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 (of course e5 is very dangerous but maybe still playable for Black) is bad for Black. Personnally, I got this line only once against someone of my level, he was prepared on this line and I wasn't. I have played 5..Nc6 6.Qa4 d6 7.e5 dxe5 8.Nxe5 Qd4 9.Nxc6 Qxa4 10.Nxa4 bxc6 improvised over the board and got a nice play but it seems to score quite bad on database.

I began to play 2..g6 because of the Rossolimo (and I hate that early Bxc6 in the g6 line) but I might consider returning if I can't enjoy/have good chances against 2..g6 3.Qxd4
  
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #26 - 04/27/11 at 22:19:48
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ArKheiN wrote on 04/27/11 at 10:18:34:
This is what GM Andrei Sokolov did to me: he is a specialist of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5. and as a Accelerated Dragon player, I have played 2..g6 to him and he replied with 3.d4. I was so afraid of the lines beginning with 3..cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.e5 (which is really different here with with the knight on c3 instead of f3) that I decided to play 3..Bg7 and I lost anyway, I had no idea how to handle the position. Indeed, in the analysis he told me he would have played 5.e5 but home analysis says that 5..Nh5 is not that bad for Black. 5.Nc3 is indeed interesting too and quite critical for the 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 line.


"This is what GM Andrei Sokolov did to me: he is a specialist of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5" Is that line so dangerous as to want to avoid it?

Tops Smiley

EDIT: I can't find a single game of GM Sokolov A with this line in my database. You sure u got the right guy?
  

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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #25 - 04/27/11 at 10:18:34
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This is what GM Andrei Sokolov did to me: he is a specialist of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5. and as a Accelerated Dragon player, I have played 2..g6 to him and he replied with 3.d4. I was so afraid of the lines beginning with 3..cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.e5 (which is really different here with with the knight on c3 instead of f3) that I decided to play 3..Bg7 and I lost anyway, I had no idea how to handle the position. Indeed, in the analysis he told me he would have played 5.e5 but home analysis says that 5..Nh5 is not that bad for Black. 5.Nc3 is indeed interesting too and quite critical for the 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 line.
  
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #24 - 04/24/11 at 18:12:55
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After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6, 5.Nc3 and 5.e5 are really two independent and very different lines.

If the consensus here is 5.Nc3 is critical, that is also of interest to Grand Prix Attack or Closed Sicilian players, who can try the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6!? (avoiding 2...Nc6 3.Bb5!?) 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Nf3.
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #23 - 04/24/11 at 17:13:18
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/24/11 at 17:03:18:
Working a bit on it variation you'll see that Black is in huge pressure!


Yes, starting with 9.Nc4 White has a big initiative.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #22 - 04/24/11 at 17:03:18
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Working a bit on it variation you'll see that Black is in huge pressure!
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #21 - 04/24/11 at 00:32:40
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Ametanoitos wrote on 11/11/10 at 23:18:15:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4! Nf6 5.Nc3! Nc6 6.Qa4 d6 7.e5 leads to at least a slight advantage for White. I was working hard in this line from Black's side 6-7 months ago to make it playable and in my notes i had found a solution leading to unclear play. Now looking it from a distance i think that White is better there also.



I was under the impression that after 7.e5 that 7...dxe5 8.Ne5 Qd4 was satisfactory for Black but it's complicated and maybe I'm mixing up variations.
  
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #20 - 04/23/11 at 15:33:58
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This is treated, as it happens, in the most recent (April 2011) Dragons update.  However this belongs in the Dragons forum, not Anti-Sicilians, eh?
  

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Kubi
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Re: 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 g6
Reply #19 - 04/23/11 at 11:54:15
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Conzipe wrote on 02/16/11 at 11:59:59:
According to dzindzi there is equality to black everywhere after 2...g6 however I do believe white maintains some edge by playing 4. Qxd4 or it's just me being disgusted by black's awkward looking position.


As Black, I gave up 2...g6 due to 4.Qxd4 myself and even when I rarely play the line I go for 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 Bg7 !? which might lead to exchange sac by black with best play. Objectively after 4.Qxd4 black might be holding his own but I found out that it is not easy to play that kind of position with black pieces. I was using the line to avoid Rossolimo but now I believe it is much better to be ready to face Rossolimo than 4.Qxd4. Btw this discussion is sort of related to dragons section (as it tends to transpose to AD or even normal dragon ) and there is another thread there which you might find useful.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1278690133

You will also find the exchange sacrifice mentioned by Greet at the link.

Don't get me wrong, again  4.Qxd4 should not be disaster for black but I just find it difficult to counter.
  
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