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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) B78: Challenge (Read 49419 times)
MamboVipi
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Re: Challenge
Reply #33 - 01/31/11 at 14:06:16
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I just found out that my game ended differently than I thought. I thought that Swiss_dragon played 22... Nxb3 and after the 23.cxb3 Rc2, seems I didn't read my email very well   Roll Eyes 
But it doesn't matter, the game ended anyway at move 23 with the evaluation of Houdini. 
The difference in evaluation I found between Rybka and Houdini was however in the variation with 22 ... Nxb3. Even then I think it is pretty good playable for black.

I think that 15.Na3 is also interesting: I mean 14.Ndxb5 Qb6 15.Na3 Black will probably go slowly with moves like Be6, Rfc8, Rb8 but I think white can cause problems with Rhe1, f4, e5.
The knight on a3 is passive for the time being, but it cannot be chased away by the not-longer-existing b-pawn and it covers c2.
  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Challenge
Reply #32 - 01/31/11 at 12:07:47
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/31/11 at 11:43:08:
Very entertaining stuff! Looking at the games without an engine running at the background my favourite White's aproach is MamboVipi's 15.Nxd6! Maybe you are right that the objective evaluation is not a White's advantage but OTB i believe that Black will face some hard time. Are there any reasonable alternatives for Black on the 14nth move according to your analysis? (instead of 14...Qb5)

I am surprized to see only one corr game in my database after this ...b5 gambit:

[Event "DDR"]
[Site "corr"]
[Date "1988.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mittag"]
[Black "Reichel"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B78"]
[PlyCount "46"]
[EventDate "1988.??.??"]
[Source "Chess Mail Ltd"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. Bb3 Rc8 11. h4 h5 12. O-O-O Ne5 13. Bg5 b5 14. Ndxb5 Qa5 15.Na3 Be6 16. Nd5 Qd8 17. Kb1 Nxd5 18. exd5 Bf5 19. Rhe1 Re8 20. Ka1 Qb6 21. Be3 Qb7 22. Qa5 Bxc2 23. Nxc2 Rxc2 1-0



Well, I think that 14...Qb6 is clearly the strongest move in the position and is essential for Black's attacking scheme. 

I think if Black studies the 14...Qb6 15.Nxd6 stuff seriously at home (by replaying the MamboVipi-Swiss_Dragon game and thinking about alternatives), he won't have a hard time at the board.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Challenge
Reply #31 - 01/31/11 at 11:43:08
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Very entertaining stuff! Looking at the games without an engine running at the background my favourite White's aproach is MamboVipi's 15.Nxd6! Maybe you are right that the objective evaluation is not a White's advantage but OTB i believe that Black will face some hard time. Are there any reasonable alternatives for Black on the 14nth move according to your analysis? (instead of 14...Qb5)

I am surprized to see only one corr game in my database after this ...b5 gambit:

[Event "DDR"]
[Site "corr"]
[Date "1988.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mittag"]
[Black "Reichel"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B78"]
[PlyCount "46"]
[EventDate "1988.??.??"]
[Source "Chess Mail Ltd"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. Bb3 Rc8 11. h4 h5 12. O-O-O Ne5 13. Bg5 b5 14. Ndxb5 Qa5 15.Na3 Be6 16. Nd5 Qd8 17. Kb1 Nxd5 18. exd5 Bf5 19. Rhe1 Re8 20. Ka1 Qb6 21. Be3 Qb7 22. Qa5 Bxc2 23. Nxc2 Rxc2 1-0

  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Challenge
Reply #30 - 01/31/11 at 10:29:50
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/27/11 at 11:49:49:
Bring it on Swiss Dragon! I would very much like to play with you a game in this line but i have very very much work to do right now (for other things and of course for my Tarrasch book for QC  Wink) so my spare time is very limited or simply not existant. Browsing at interesting post on chesspub is really a luxury for me! But i'll keep an eye on this because i'm waiting to see some hardcore Dragon analysis!


I see, the guys want some hardcore Dragon stuff!! Smiley Check out the challenge games in the pgn-file, which I enriched with some analysis! Any comments are welcome! Especially illustrative for Black's long term compensation is Hoerbiey-Swiss_Dragon. 

White has other options of playing, and I will summarize these later. Just for now I've got other things to do!
  

13Bg5-b5line.pgn ( 15 KB | Downloads )
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Challenge
Reply #29 - 01/27/11 at 11:49:49
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Bring it on Swiss Dragon! I would very much like to play with you a game in this line but i have very very much work to do right now (for other things and of course for my Tarrasch book for QC  Wink) so my spare time is very limited or simply not existant. Browsing at interesting post on chesspub is really a luxury for me! But i'll keep an eye on this because i'm waiting to see some hardcore Dragon analysis!
  
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Oblonskij
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Re: Challenge
Reply #28 - 01/27/11 at 10:29:34
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cool stuff, you're really tempting me to take up the dragon again. I'm looking forward to reading some of your analysis and the games of course!
  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Challenge
Reply #27 - 01/27/11 at 03:56:22
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MNb wrote on 01/26/11 at 22:23:18:
Swiss_Dragon wrote on 01/26/11 at 14:34:27:
So then 0.5:3.5 in Black's favour and my (so far perfect) performance is ruined. Wink


Yeah, that's bad news for the Dragon.  Grin
Will you give us curious readers (especially me) an overview in the near future? I might be tempted to play this myself as Black.


Well, one challenge game is still running. It probably wouldn't be too clever to make anything public before it is over. But if my opponent keeps taking weeks of time to play one move, we may need to abort it for the sake of the curiousity of other readers. If you have specific questions, you can email me and I can give you some advice.
  
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MNb
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Re: Challenge
Reply #26 - 01/26/11 at 22:23:18
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Swiss_Dragon wrote on 01/26/11 at 14:34:27:
So then 0.5:3.5 in Black's favour and my (so far perfect) performance is ruined. Wink


Yeah, that's bad news for the Dragon.  Grin
Will you give us curious readers (especially me) an overview in the near future? I might be tempted to play this myself as Black.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Challenge
Reply #25 - 01/26/11 at 14:34:27
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Another game has ended, MamboVipi-Swiss_Dragon and ended in a draw (with Houdini evaluation close to 0.00). MamboVipi found a pretty interesting approach to play it safely and I had to find a couple of accurate moves to equalize. 

So then 0.5:3.5 in Black's favour and my (so far perfect) performance is ruined. Wink
  
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Swiss_Dragon
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Re: Challenge
Reply #24 - 01/26/11 at 12:42:57
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One more game has finished, the game between Fausto Alava-Moreno and me. It also ended 0:1 after resignation of White on move 23, who realized that Houdini will show a clear advantage for Black after the obvious reply. Actually my opponent improved significantly on Bragesjo's game, but he missed the best continuation later on.

So, that's 0:3 in Black's favour.  Roll Eyes 

Two games are still being played. Merovingian hasn't sent me a move for more than a week. That's why we are still at move 17, so I really expect to get some moves from his side soon!
  
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Fausto Alava-Moreno
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Re: Challenge
Reply #23 - 01/26/11 at 12:38:29
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The third game is also finished.

Pending Houdini analysis, I think that Black's Position is preferable.

White play can be improved, but b5 is a very interesting alternative.

I suppose that some analysis will be published when the challenge has ended.
  

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Best regards, Fausto.
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Fausto Alava-Moreno
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Re: Challenge
Reply #22 - 01/23/11 at 22:01:01
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Am I following the same line as Bragesjo did?

Interesting ...

Swiss_Dragon wrote on 01/23/11 at 08:40:04:
The second game has finished, Bragesjo-Swiss_Dragon 0:1 after Bragesjo's resignation. We didn't get that far in this game and it will be interesting to see if Fausto Alava-Moreno can improve upon White's play. I will post this game only after all games have finished (same chances for everyone).

  

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MamboVipi
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Re: Challenge
Reply #21 - 01/23/11 at 11:17:30
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I've taken up the challenge as well.
  
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Re: Challenge
Reply #20 - 01/23/11 at 08:40:04
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The second game has finished, Bragesjo-Swiss_Dragon 0:1 after Bragesjo's resignation. We didn't get that far in this game and it will be interesting to see if Fausto Alava-Moreno can improve upon White's play. I will post this game only after all games have finished (same chances for everyone).
  
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Fausto Alava-Moreno
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Re: Challenge
Reply #19 - 01/20/11 at 18:09:09
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Just sended my first movement on the Challenge to your personal e-mail.
  

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Best regards, Fausto.
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