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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5? (Read 32837 times)
NeverGiveUp
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #7 - 01/13/11 at 11:08:34
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Thanks for this.

I have Kindermann's book (it is excellent!) and he recommends 2. ... g6 3.Nd2 Bg7 4.e4 de4: 5.Ne4: d5, I don't really like that position in paricular because of "hole" on e5, and you're giving white what he wants by going along with their main line so they might come up with an improvement / home prep as in the 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 g6 3.Nd2 Bg7 4.e3!? game where I got into big big trouble very quickly... any comments?
  
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #6 - 01/13/11 at 09:39:08
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 01/12/11 at 14:37:35:
Can anyone advice me what to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5? 

This is a rather nasty sideline and I have been struggling to find a good reply.

I'm currently playing the messy variation 2. ... h6 2.Bh4 c5!? 3.e4 Qb6 - black might be doing OK here (??) but it surely doesn't get more messy than this. Last summer I won a piece in 7 moves with 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c5 4.e3?! Qb6 5.Nc3? cd4: 6.ed4: g5 7.Nf3 gh4:. How do you guys evaluate this rather fascinating (although not necessarily correct) variation? If it's no good, what is a better alternative?

Any help is most welcome.



Go with 2...g6, Kindermann's book is a good source if you need one.

2...h6 3.Bh4 c5? is objectively bad, but fun and effective in blitz, as the main idea of catching Bh4 frequently works then (Qb6 gives the King d8 as escape square as well as allowing Qh5+ to be met by g6 sometimes), but any strong engine would beat black, probably in less than twenty moves. As far as I know the idea was discovered in the end of the 1990s  by Christer Niklasson, the trainer of Emanuel Berg.

2...h6 3.Bh4 g5 is certainly playable but the resulting positions are very demanding, especially for Black - even if White goofs up and loses the bishop he'll have practical chances for a long time.
  
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #5 - 01/13/11 at 09:30:36
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After 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c5 4.e4 Qb6 5.Nd2 I go 5. ... g5!? and after 6.Qh5+ Kd8 7.Bg5: Qb2: 8.Rb1 Qd4: 9.Be3 Qg7! things are not so clear since white's pawn structure is a mess as well and g2 is under attack. Play may continue 10.Qf5: d6 followed by Nc6 and e5, or 10.Bc5: Nf6! 11.Qh4 (11.Qf5:? d6) fe4:. I took this through Fritz and would say black is doing fine here. The variation does have quite some teeth more than appears at first sight. 

5.Nc3 is not very good again due to 5. ... g5 with point 6.Qh5+ Kd8 7.Bg5: Qb2: 8.Kd2!? cd4: 9.Nd5 d3! 10.Bf4 e5 11.Qf5: Bb4+ 12.Nb4: Qb4:+ 13.c3 Qb2: 14.Kd3: ef4: and black wins.

The best line for white is 5.ef5: where black should probably play the ugly looking line 5. ... Qb2: 6.Nd2 Qd4: 7.Ngf3 Qg4 8.Bd3 (8.Ne5!? Qh4: 9.Ng6 Qf6 10.Nh8: g5!) d5 9.h3 Qa4! followed by Nc6 and Nf6. White has a massive lead in development here, but his center has totally vanished what is a serious problem. Point of Qa4 is that if white goes c4 to attack black's center then black swaps Queens.

Fascinating stuff isn't it?

I have played 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 g6 but got into serious trouble after 3.Nd2 Bg7 4.e3!? (rather than e4) followed by Bd3 - white gets a lot of pressure on the kings side.
  
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #4 - 01/13/11 at 01:50:00
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Instead of 3…c5 Black could try 3…g4

e.g 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.e4 Nf6 5.e5 e6 6.Bg3 f4 7.Bd3 d5 8.exf6 Qxf6 9.Qh5 Kd8 as in Hoang Thang Tang – Bellin, Robert,  Budapest 2005.

Even if Black lost in this game it seams that Black’s king is safe.
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #3 - 01/13/11 at 00:51:34
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A sample line in Fritz 10's openings book runs 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c5 4.e4 Qb6 5.Nd2 (not 5.Qh5+ g6, but Fritz 10's suggestion 5.Nc3 may also be good) 5...cxd4 6.exf5 Nf6 7.Bd3 Qxb2 8.Ngf3 Nc6 9.0-0 and I think White has more than a pawn's worth of compensation in view of the lead in development and Black's dreadful pawn structure.  There are some alternatives for both sides but the big problem with 2...h6 is that it creates a hole on g6, and combining it with 3...c5 leaves Black with long-term king safety issues- hence Markovich's suggestion of 2...g6 makes a lot of sense.
  
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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #2 - 01/12/11 at 21:07:00
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When I played the Dutch Leningrad, I always played 2...g6, which is the only move I trust.  2...h6 just doesn't look like chess to me.  They always taught me, when your f-pawn has gone forward, don't push your h-pawn!
  

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Re: What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
Reply #1 - 01/12/11 at 17:35:57
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I think 2. ... h6 2.Bh4 c5!? 3.e4 Qb6 is just unsound, but I'll have to dig through some old notes to figure out why.  But look at the position like a beginner: Black is getting further and further behind in development, has only brought his Queen out, and "threatens" to make the cardinal mistake of capturing the Queen's Knight pawn with his Queen without finishing (or even starting!) his development.

Personally I've played 2...g6 in the few OTB games I've met 2.Bg5, which I think must be best, but can be a little annoying if you aren't a Leningrad player.
  
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What to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5?
01/12/11 at 14:37:35
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Can anyone advice me what to do against 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5? 

This is a rather nasty sideline and I have been struggling to find a good reply.

I'm currently playing the messy variation 2. ... h6 2.Bh4 c5!? 3.e4 Qb6 - black might be doing OK here (??) but it surely doesn't get more messy than this. Last summer I won a piece in 7 moves with 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c5 4.e3?! Qb6 5.Nc3? cd4: 6.ed4: g5 7.Nf3 gh4:. How do you guys evaluate this rather fascinating (although not necessarily correct) variation? If it's no good, what is a better alternative?

Any help is most welcome.
  
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