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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Summation of opening theory in the Fritz (Read 12093 times)
sloughter
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #13 - 03/16/11 at 22:41:25
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sloughter wrote on 03/08/11 at 01:56:49:
MNb wrote on 03/08/11 at 00:03:21:
This is not a summation.
The superior 9.cxd4 is lacking.

9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Nb6 11.Bb3 f5 12.Ng3 Qf6 looks a lot better.
Still I don't feel like discussing this for two reasons:

1) you think += means that White will win in the end;
2) 9.cxd4 is a bigger problem.

Posting the same piece three times is not encouraging either.

Bolzoni,V (2240) - Ponnet,H (2072) [C57]
TIPC Open Charleroi (3.10), 02.08.2010

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.0-0 g6 13.Ng3 Bg7 14.f4 Ndxf4 15.Nxf5 gxf5 16.Bxf4 Nxf4 17.Rxf4 Qg5 18.Rf2 e4 19.dxe4 fxe4 20.Na3 e3 21.Re2 Be5 22.Qd3 Qf4 23.Bf7+ Qxf7 24.Rf1 Qh5 25.g3 Bd6 26.Rxe3+ Kd7 27.Rf5 Qg6 28.Nc4 Rae8 29.Ne5+ Rxe5 30.Rfxe5 Rf8 31.Qxg6 hxg6 32.Ra5 a6 33.b4 Bb5 34.a4 Bf1 35.h4 c5 36.Re1 Bc4 37.Re4 Bd5 38.Rg4 Bb7 39.Rxg6 cxb4 40.cxb4 Bxb4 41.Rh5 Bc3 42.Rh7+ Kc8 43.Rg4 Bd5 44.Rh5 Be6 45.Rf4 Rxf4 46.gxf4 Kd7 47.Kf2 Ke7 48.Ke3 a5 49.Kd3 Bb4 50.Rg5 Kf6 51.h5 Bf5+ 52.Ke3 Bf8 53.Rg2 Bd7 54.Rg5 Bf5 55.Rg8 Kf7 56.Rg2 Kf6 57.Rb2 Bb4 58.Rg2 Bf8 59.Kd4 Bh6 60.Rb2 ½-½

So, with the remark that 10.Bc4 is one of your few better ideas, I will leave this thread further to you as your personal playground. Which is an answer to TRW's question.


As I indicated White must avoid 11.d3 & play 11.O-O with a clear advantage e.g. 11.O-O Nb6 12.Bxe6 Bxe4 13.Bg4 Bd3 14.Re1 Qf6 15.Be2 O-O-O 16.Bxd3 Rxd3 17.Qe2 +/-

11.O-O Ndf4 12.Re1 Nd3 13.Re3 Nxc1 (Nef4? 14.Qf3 Nxc1? 15.Qxf4! exf4 16.Nf6#) 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qxc1 +/-

I thought it would be better that ArKeiN and you would provide the 9.cxd4 line which was too detailed for the summation. It was also not included in the summation because it is anti-positional and I don't like anti-positional continuations.



Here is a game against Fritz 12 at 120'40 60'20 '30.

4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.O-O Nb6 12.Bxe6 Bxe4 13.Bg4 h5? 14.Bf3 Bxf3 15.Qxf3 Qd5 16.Qxd5 Nxd5 17.d4 exd4 18.cxd4 O-O-O 19.Nc3 Bb4 20.Bd2 +/=
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #12 - 03/09/11 at 01:23:03
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sloughter wrote on 03/09/11 at 00:21:31:
TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 22:34:02:
sloughter wrote on 03/08/11 at 13:27:07:
TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 06:06:39:
Didn't you once claim that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 was a forced win for White?  Grin


No---I said the game was published in Inside Chess, a magazine devoted to games from chess professionals; the opening is named after me in a number of data bases. 

For the record here is the score of the game. It features a "Knight Wheel". The only other example of a Knight Wheel I am aware was one played by Capablanca (According to Chernev, an endgame's expert). 

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4!? N exd4 (GM Lev Alburt suggested, perhaps, d6) 5.e5 Nd5 6.Qe4 Bb4ch?! (Since this was played by a correspondence expert, it is a reasonable.) 7.Bd2 Bxd2ch 8.Nbxd2  Nde7 9.O-O-O d5 10.Qh4 Bf5 11.Nb3 Ng6 12.Qxd8ch Rxd6 13.Nbxd4 Bg4 14.Bb5 Ne7 15.Rhe1 O-O 16.Nxc6 Nxc6 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Rd4 Bc8 19.b4! (Freezing the Queenside) Rfe8 20.Re3 f6 21.Kd2 fxe5 22.Nxe5 Bb7 23.Nd3 Rxe3 24.Kxe3 Ba6 25.Kd2 Bb5 26.Rf4 Rf8 27.Rxf8ch Kxf8 28.Kc3 Ke7 29.Kd4 Kd6 (Now comes the Knight Wheel---this is one example of a "squeeze". 30.Nc5 Be2 31.Nb7ch Kd7 32.Kc5 Bb5 33.Na5 Ba4 34.Nb3 Bb5 35.Nd4 Ba4 36.c3 a6 37.a3 g6 38.f4 h6 39.Nf3 Ke6 40.Nd4ch Kd7 41.g4 g5 42.f5 Bd1 43.Nxc6 Ke8 44.Ne5 Bb3 45.Kc6 Kd8 46.Kb7 Ba4 47.Kxa6 1-0


This variation reminds me of 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 variation, which is considered equal by theory. It's hard to believe that the same position with the extra move ...Nf6 is any better, for example 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 Nd4 5.Nd4 ed4 6.e5 Nd5 7.Qe4 c6 8.Qd4 d6 and Black is already better.


White can steer towards a wildly unbalanced position after: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.e5 Nd5 7.Qe4 c6 8.Bc4 Bc5 9.Bxd5 cxd5 10.Qg4 unclear 

What does this have to do with the Fritz? Why are you doing this?


I dispute your evaluation after 10.Qg4, but I'll just point out that 8...Bc5 is not necessary as 8...Nb6 is at least equal for Black:

a) 9.Bb3 Bc5 10.c3 dc3 11.Nc3 0-0 12.0-0 d5 13.ed6 Bd6 and White has insufficient compensation for the pawn. Black's queenside isn't developed yet, but he has no weaknesses and White still is a few moves from completing his development as well.

b) 9.Nd2 Qe7 10.Bd3 d6 11.ed6 Qe4 12.Ne4 f5 13.Ng3 g6 favours Black, as White has a weak d6-pawn that is likely to drop off, and White's pieces lack good squares. 

c) 9.Bd3! d6 10.Bf4 Nd5 11.ed6 Be6 12.Bg3 Bd6 13.Qd4 0-0 and in this open position Black's pieces are definitely better placed. His position is marginally better. 

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What does this have to do with the Fritz? Why are you doing this?


Nothing, I just thought it would be fun to refute your answer to the Petroff as well.  Grin

Next up - what do you recommend against the Phillidor, Master Moody?
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #11 - 03/09/11 at 00:21:31
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TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 22:34:02:
sloughter wrote on 03/08/11 at 13:27:07:
TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 06:06:39:
Didn't you once claim that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 was a forced win for White?  Grin


No---I said the game was published in Inside Chess, a magazine devoted to games from chess professionals; the opening is named after me in a number of data bases. 

For the record here is the score of the game. It features a "Knight Wheel". The only other example of a Knight Wheel I am aware was one played by Capablanca (According to Chernev, an endgame's expert). 

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4!? N exd4 (GM Lev Alburt suggested, perhaps, d6) 5.e5 Nd5 6.Qe4 Bb4ch?! (Since this was played by a correspondence expert, it is a reasonable.) 7.Bd2 Bxd2ch 8.Nbxd2  Nde7 9.O-O-O d5 10.Qh4 Bf5 11.Nb3 Ng6 12.Qxd8ch Rxd6 13.Nbxd4 Bg4 14.Bb5 Ne7 15.Rhe1 O-O 16.Nxc6 Nxc6 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Rd4 Bc8 19.b4! (Freezing the Queenside) Rfe8 20.Re3 f6 21.Kd2 fxe5 22.Nxe5 Bb7 23.Nd3 Rxe3 24.Kxe3 Ba6 25.Kd2 Bb5 26.Rf4 Rf8 27.Rxf8ch Kxf8 28.Kc3 Ke7 29.Kd4 Kd6 (Now comes the Knight Wheel---this is one example of a "squeeze". 30.Nc5 Be2 31.Nb7ch Kd7 32.Kc5 Bb5 33.Na5 Ba4 34.Nb3 Bb5 35.Nd4 Ba4 36.c3 a6 37.a3 g6 38.f4 h6 39.Nf3 Ke6 40.Nd4ch Kd7 41.g4 g5 42.f5 Bd1 43.Nxc6 Ke8 44.Ne5 Bb3 45.Kc6 Kd8 46.Kb7 Ba4 47.Kxa6 1-0


This variation reminds me of 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 variation, which is considered equal by theory. It's hard to believe that the same position with the extra move ...Nf6 is any better, for example 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 Nd4 5.Nd4 ed4 6.e5 Nd5 7.Qe4 c6 8.Qd4 d6 and Black is already better.


White can steer towards a wildly unbalanced position after: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.e5 Nd5 7.Qe4 c6 8.Bc4 Bc5 9.Bxd5 cxd5 10.Qg4 unclear 

What does this have to do with the Fritz? Why are you doing this?
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #10 - 03/08/11 at 22:34:02
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sloughter wrote on 03/08/11 at 13:27:07:
TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 06:06:39:
Didn't you once claim that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 was a forced win for White?  Grin


No---I said the game was published in Inside Chess, a magazine devoted to games from chess professionals; the opening is named after me in a number of data bases. 

For the record here is the score of the game. It features a "Knight Wheel". The only other example of a Knight Wheel I am aware was one played by Capablanca (According to Chernev, an endgame's expert). 

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4!? N exd4 (GM Lev Alburt suggested, perhaps, d6) 5.e5 Nd5 6.Qe4 Bb4ch?! (Since this was played by a correspondence expert, it is a reasonable.) 7.Bd2 Bxd2ch 8.Nbxd2  Nde7 9.O-O-O d5 10.Qh4 Bf5 11.Nb3 Ng6 12.Qxd8ch Rxd6 13.Nbxd4 Bg4 14.Bb5 Ne7 15.Rhe1 O-O 16.Nxc6 Nxc6 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Rd4 Bc8 19.b4! (Freezing the Queenside) Rfe8 20.Re3 f6 21.Kd2 fxe5 22.Nxe5 Bb7 23.Nd3 Rxe3 24.Kxe3 Ba6 25.Kd2 Bb5 26.Rf4 Rf8 27.Rxf8ch Kxf8 28.Kc3 Ke7 29.Kd4 Kd6 (Now comes the Knight Wheel---this is one example of a "squeeze". 30.Nc5 Be2 31.Nb7ch Kd7 32.Kc5 Bb5 33.Na5 Ba4 34.Nb3 Bb5 35.Nd4 Ba4 36.c3 a6 37.a3 g6 38.f4 h6 39.Nf3 Ke6 40.Nd4ch Kd7 41.g4 g5 42.f5 Bd1 43.Nxc6 Ke8 44.Ne5 Bb3 45.Kc6 Kd8 46.Kb7 Ba4 47.Kxa6 1-0


This variation reminds me of 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 variation, which is considered equal by theory. It's hard to believe that the same position with the extra move ...Nf6 is any better, for example 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 Nd4 5.Nd4 ed4 6.e5 Nd5 7.Qe4 c6 8.Qd4 d6 and Black is already better.
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #9 - 03/08/11 at 13:27:07
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TN wrote on 03/08/11 at 06:06:39:
Didn't you once claim that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 was a forced win for White?  Grin


No---I said the game was published in Inside Chess, a magazine devoted to games from chess professionals; the opening is named after me in a number of data bases. 

For the record here is the score of the game. It features a "Knight Wheel". The only other example of a Knight Wheel I am aware was one played by Capablanca (According to Chernev, an endgame's expert). 

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4!? N exd4 (GM Lev Alburt suggested, perhaps, d6) 5.e5 Nd5 6.Qe4 Bb4ch?! (Since this was played by a correspondence expert, it is a reasonable.) 7.Bd2 Bxd2ch 8.Nbxd2  Nde7 9.O-O-O d5 10.Qh4 Bf5 11.Nb3 Ng6 12.Qxd8ch Rxd6 13.Nbxd4 Bg4 14.Bb5 Ne7 15.Rhe1 O-O 16.Nxc6 Nxc6 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Rd4 Bc8 19.b4! (Freezing the Queenside) Rfe8 20.Re3 f6 21.Kd2 fxe5 22.Nxe5 Bb7 23.Nd3 Rxe3 24.Kxe3 Ba6 25.Kd2 Bb5 26.Rf4 Rf8 27.Rxf8ch Kxf8 28.Kc3 Ke7 29.Kd4 Kd6 (Now comes the Knight Wheel---this is one example of a "squeeze". 30.Nc5 Be2 31.Nb7ch Kd7 32.Kc5 Bb5 33.Na5 Ba4 34.Nb3 Bb5 35.Nd4 Ba4 36.c3 a6 37.a3 g6 38.f4 h6 39.Nf3 Ke6 40.Nd4ch Kd7 41.g4 g5 42.f5 Bd1 43.Nxc6 Ke8 44.Ne5 Bb3 45.Kc6 Kd8 46.Kb7 Ba4 47.Kxa6 1-0
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #8 - 03/08/11 at 06:06:39
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Didn't you once claim that 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 was a forced win for White?  Grin
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #7 - 03/08/11 at 04:23:42
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sloughter wrote on 03/08/11 at 01:56:49:
MNb wrote on 03/08/11 at 00:03:21:
This is not a summation.
The superior 9.cxd4 is lacking.

9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Nb6 11.Bb3 f5 12.Ng3 Qf6 looks a lot better.
Still I don't feel like discussing this for two reasons:

1) you think += means that White will win in the end;
2) 9.cxd4 is a bigger problem.

Posting the same piece three times is not encouraging either.

Bolzoni,V (2240) - Ponnet,H (2072) [C57]
TIPC Open Charleroi (3.10), 02.08.2010

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.0-0 g6 13.Ng3 Bg7 14.f4 Ndxf4 15.Nxf5 gxf5 16.Bxf4 Nxf4 17.Rxf4 Qg5 18.Rf2 e4 19.dxe4 fxe4 20.Na3 e3 21.Re2 Be5 22.Qd3 Qf4 23.Bf7+ Qxf7 24.Rf1 Qh5 25.g3 Bd6 26.Rxe3+ Kd7 27.Rf5 Qg6 28.Nc4 Rae8 29.Ne5+ Rxe5 30.Rfxe5 Rf8 31.Qxg6 hxg6 32.Ra5 a6 33.b4 Bb5 34.a4 Bf1 35.h4 c5 36.Re1 Bc4 37.Re4 Bd5 38.Rg4 Bb7 39.Rxg6 cxb4 40.cxb4 Bxb4 41.Rh5 Bc3 42.Rh7+ Kc8 43.Rg4 Bd5 44.Rh5 Be6 45.Rf4 Rxf4 46.gxf4 Kd7 47.Kf2 Ke7 48.Ke3 a5 49.Kd3 Bb4 50.Rg5 Kf6 51.h5 Bf5+ 52.Ke3 Bf8 53.Rg2 Bd7 54.Rg5 Bf5 55.Rg8 Kf7 56.Rg2 Kf6 57.Rb2 Bb4 58.Rg2 Bf8 59.Kd4 Bh6 60.Rb2 ½-½

So, with the remark that 10.Bc4 is one of your few better ideas, I will leave this thread further to you as your personal playground. Which is an answer to TRW's question.


As I indicated White must avoid 11.d3 & play 11.O-O with a clear advantage e.g. 11.O-O Nb6 12.Bxe6 Bxe4 13.Bg4 Bd3 14.Re1 Qf6 15.Be2 O-O-O 16.Bxd3 Rxd3 17.Qe2 +/-

11.O-O Ndf4 12.Re1 Nd3 13.Re3 Nxc1 (Nef4? 14.Qf3 Nxc1? 15.Qxf4! exf4 16.Nf6#) 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qxc1 +/-

I thought it would be better that ArKeiN and you would provide the 9.cxd4 line which was too detailed for the summation. It was also not included in the summation because it is anti-positional and I don't like anti-positional continuations.




Black has sizeable problems with your preferred line:
Unless Black castles Queenside he has nothing for the pawn. 

8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4 Nb6 11.Bb3 f5 12.Ng3 Qf6 13.O-O Bd6 14.d4 O-O-O 15.dxe5 Bxe5 16.Qe2 Bxg3 17.fxg3 Nc5 18.Na3 Rhe8 19.Qh5 Ne4 20.Bf4 Na4 21.Nc4 Bb5 22.Bxc7! Kxc7 23.Rxf5 g6 24.Qxh7ch Rd7 25.Rxf6 Rxh7 26.Bxa4 Bxa4 27.Ra6 Bd7 28.Rxa7ch +/-

Black can avoid the forcing sequence beginning with 22.Bxc7, but the White attack looks a lot more convincing than the Black attack.
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #6 - 03/08/11 at 01:56:49
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MNb wrote on 03/08/11 at 00:03:21:
This is not a summation.
The superior 9.cxd4 is lacking.

9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Nb6 11.Bb3 f5 12.Ng3 Qf6 looks a lot better.
Still I don't feel like discussing this for two reasons:

1) you think += means that White will win in the end;
2) 9.cxd4 is a bigger problem.

Posting the same piece three times is not encouraging either.

Bolzoni,V (2240) - Ponnet,H (2072) [C57]
TIPC Open Charleroi (3.10), 02.08.2010

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.0-0 g6 13.Ng3 Bg7 14.f4 Ndxf4 15.Nxf5 gxf5 16.Bxf4 Nxf4 17.Rxf4 Qg5 18.Rf2 e4 19.dxe4 fxe4 20.Na3 e3 21.Re2 Be5 22.Qd3 Qf4 23.Bf7+ Qxf7 24.Rf1 Qh5 25.g3 Bd6 26.Rxe3+ Kd7 27.Rf5 Qg6 28.Nc4 Rae8 29.Ne5+ Rxe5 30.Rfxe5 Rf8 31.Qxg6 hxg6 32.Ra5 a6 33.b4 Bb5 34.a4 Bf1 35.h4 c5 36.Re1 Bc4 37.Re4 Bd5 38.Rg4 Bb7 39.Rxg6 cxb4 40.cxb4 Bxb4 41.Rh5 Bc3 42.Rh7+ Kc8 43.Rg4 Bd5 44.Rh5 Be6 45.Rf4 Rxf4 46.gxf4 Kd7 47.Kf2 Ke7 48.Ke3 a5 49.Kd3 Bb4 50.Rg5 Kf6 51.h5 Bf5+ 52.Ke3 Bf8 53.Rg2 Bd7 54.Rg5 Bf5 55.Rg8 Kf7 56.Rg2 Kf6 57.Rb2 Bb4 58.Rg2 Bf8 59.Kd4 Bh6 60.Rb2 ½-½

So, with the remark that 10.Bc4 is one of your few better ideas, I will leave this thread further to you as your personal playground. Which is an answer to TRW's question.


As I indicated White must avoid 11.d3 & play 11.O-O with a clear advantage e.g. 11.O-O Nb6 12.Bxe6 Bxe4 13.Bg4 Bd3 14.Re1 Qf6 15.Be2 O-O-O 16.Bxd3 Rxd3 17.Qe2 +/-

11.O-O Ndf4 12.Re1 Nd3 13.Re3 Nxc1 (Nef4? 14.Qf3 Nxc1? 15.Qxf4! exf4 16.Nf6#) 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qxc1 +/-

I thought it would be better that ArKeiN and you would provide the 9.cxd4 line which was too detailed for the summation. It was also not included in the summation because it is anti-positional and I don't like anti-positional continuations.


  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #5 - 03/08/11 at 00:03:21
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This is not a summation.
The superior 9.cxd4 is lacking.

9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Nb6 11.Bb3 f5 12.Ng3 Qf6 looks a lot better.
Still I don't feel like discussing this for two reasons:

1) you think += means that White will win in the end;
2) 9.cxd4 is a bigger problem.

Posting the same piece three times is not encouraging either.

Bolzoni,V (2240) - Ponnet,H (2072) [C57]
TIPC Open Charleroi (3.10), 02.08.2010

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.0-0 g6 13.Ng3 Bg7 14.f4 Ndxf4 15.Nxf5 gxf5 16.Bxf4 Nxf4 17.Rxf4 Qg5 18.Rf2 e4 19.dxe4 fxe4 20.Na3 e3 21.Re2 Be5 22.Qd3 Qf4 23.Bf7+ Qxf7 24.Rf1 Qh5 25.g3 Bd6 26.Rxe3+ Kd7 27.Rf5 Qg6 28.Nc4 Rae8 29.Ne5+ Rxe5 30.Rfxe5 Rf8 31.Qxg6 hxg6 32.Ra5 a6 33.b4 Bb5 34.a4 Bf1 35.h4 c5 36.Re1 Bc4 37.Re4 Bd5 38.Rg4 Bb7 39.Rxg6 cxb4 40.cxb4 Bxb4 41.Rh5 Bc3 42.Rh7+ Kc8 43.Rg4 Bd5 44.Rh5 Be6 45.Rf4 Rxf4 46.gxf4 Kd7 47.Kf2 Ke7 48.Ke3 a5 49.Kd3 Bb4 50.Rg5 Kf6 51.h5 Bf5+ 52.Ke3 Bf8 53.Rg2 Bd7 54.Rg5 Bf5 55.Rg8 Kf7 56.Rg2 Kf6 57.Rb2 Bb4 58.Rg2 Bf8 59.Kd4 Bh6 60.Rb2 ½-½

So, with the remark that 10.Bc4 is one of your few better ideas, I will leave this thread further to you as your personal playground. Which is an answer to TRW's question.
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #4 - 03/07/11 at 21:14:06
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[quote author=6E757F747D6E7843717373786543766E321C0 link=1299526858/3#3 date=1299529231][quote author=627973787162744F7D7F7F74694F7A623E100 link=1299526858/0#0 date=1299526858]Summation of Fritz theory---1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4    1)...8.Qh4?    2)...Ne6!

8...Qh4 9.Ng3 Bg4 10.f3 e4 11.cxd4 Bd6 12.Qe2! (The Muir Variation. If 12...O-O 13.fxg4 Bxg3 ch 14.Kd1 & any strong computer will crunch the win a piece up)

12...Be6   1) 13.Qf2?! 2) 13.Nc3!? 13.Qxb5ch!! The only move considered by Dr. Hans Berliner was the blunder 13.fxe4??

John Jerz has analyzed 13.Qf2 to a win but it takes a computer to calculate the win.

13.Nc3 is a simpler win with 13...Nxc3 14.dxc3 Bxg3ch 15.hxg3 Qxh1 16.Qxb5ch Kf8 (Bd7 17.Qe5ch Be6 18.d5 +/-) 17.fxe4 +-

Simplest and best for White is:

13.Qxb5ch!! Kd8 (We follow a game I played against Fritz 12: 14.fxe4 a6 15.Qd3 Nb4 16.Qc3 Nxa2 17.Rxa2 Bxg3ch 18.hxg3 Qxe4ch 19.Kf2 Bxa2 20.Na3 Qf5ch 21.Qf3 Qxf3ch 22.gxf3 Ke7 23.Bc4 Bxc4 24.Nxc4 & according to GM Lev Alburt the simplest win is b2/Ba3ch with an extra piece in the endgame.

What is critical is the variation 8...Ne6!; according to GM Alburt, Gligorich thought that White had an advantage after 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bxd7ch, but I don't think that White has anything better than 10...Qxd7 11.d4 unclear/=.

A potentially new try in this variation is:

8...Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4! (Keeping the Bishop on gives both players scope for original play. Two possiblities  A)  10...Bc6  B) 10...Nb6

10...Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.Ng3 g6 (Nef4 13.Bxf4 Nxf4 14.O-O Nxg2 15.Nd2 Nh4 16.Qe2 Qf6 17.Rae1 O-O-O 18.Qxe5 +/=) 13.O-O Bg7 14.Nd2 O-O 15.Re1 +/=

10...Nb6 11.Bb3 Bc6 12.d3 Qd7 13.O-O O-O-O 14.Bc2 f5 15.Ng5 +/=[/quote


 

White should castle before playing d3. 

8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4 Bc6 11.O-O +/= e.g. 11...Ndf4 12.Re1 Nd3 13.Re3 Nxc1 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qxc1 +/-
  
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sloughter
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #3 - 03/07/11 at 20:20:31
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sloughter wrote on 03/07/11 at 19:40:58:
Summation of Fritz theory---1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4    1)...8.Qh4?    2)...Ne6!

8...Qh4 9.Ng3 Bg4 10.f3 e4 11.cxd4 Bd6 12.Qe2! (The Muir Variation. If 12...O-O 13.fxg4 Bxg3 ch 14.Kd1 & any strong computer will crunch the win a piece up)

12...Be6   1) 13.Qf2?! 2) 13.Nc3!? 13.Qxb5ch!! The only move considered by Dr. Hans Berliner was the blunder 13.fxe4??

John Jerz has analyzed 13.Qf2 to a win but it takes a computer to calculate the win.

13.Nc3 is a simpler win with 13...Nxc3 14.dxc3 Bxg3ch 15.hxg3 Qxh1 16.Qxb5ch Kf8 (Bd7 17.Qe5ch Be6 18.d5 +/-) 17.fxe4 +-

Simplest and best for White is:

13.Qxb5ch!! Kd8 (We follow a game I played against Fritz 12: 14.fxe4 a6 15.Qd3 Nb4 16.Qc3 Nxa2 17.Rxa2 Bxg3ch 18.hxg3 Qxe4ch 19.Kf2 Bxa2 20.Na3 Qf5ch 21.Qf3 Qxf3ch 22.gxf3 Ke7 23.Bc4 Bxc4 24.Nxc4 & according to GM Lev Alburt the simplest win is b2/Ba3ch with an extra piece in the endgame.

What is critical is the variation 8...Ne6!; according to GM Alburt, Gligorich thought that White had an advantage after 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bxd7ch, but I don't think that White has anything better than 10...Qxd7 11.d4 unclear/=.

A potentially new try in this variation is:

8...Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4! (Keeping the Bishop on gives both players scope for original play. Two possiblities  A)  10...Bc6  B) 10...Nb6

10...Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.Ng3 g6 (Nef4 13.Bxf4 Nxf4 14.O-O Nxg2 15.Nd2 Nh4 16.Qe2 Qf6 17.Rae1 O-O-O 18.Qxe5 +/=) 13.O-O Bg7 14.Nd2 O-O 15.Re1 +/=

10...Nb6 11.Bb3 Bc6 12.d3 Qd7 13.O-O O-O-O 14.Bc2 f5 15.Ng5 +/=


Forgot my own analysis: 12.Ng3 Nef4 13.Bxf4 Nxf4 14.g3 +/= to +/-
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #2 - 03/07/11 at 20:15:55
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trw wrote on 03/07/11 at 20:07:29:
... mod? why does this have its own thread? and who cares about fritz   Roll Eyes


Just check BCO 2 edited by World Champion Garry Kasparov if you don't think it deserves its own thread.
  
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Re: Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
Reply #1 - 03/07/11 at 20:07:29
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... mod? why does this have its own thread? and who cares about fritz   Roll Eyes
  
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sloughter
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Summation of opening theory in the Fritz
03/07/11 at 19:40:58
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Summation of Fritz theory---1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4    1)...8.Qh4?    2)...Ne6!

8...Qh4 9.Ng3 Bg4 10.f3 e4 11.cxd4 Bd6 12.Qe2! (The Muir Variation. If 12...O-O 13.fxg4 Bxg3 ch 14.Kd1 & any strong computer will crunch the win a piece up)

12...Be6   1) 13.Qf2?! 2) 13.Nc3!? 13.Qxb5ch!! The only move considered by Dr. Hans Berliner was the blunder 13.fxe4??

John Jerz has analyzed 13.Qf2 to a win but it takes a computer to calculate the win.

13.Nc3 is a simpler win with 13...Nxc3 14.dxc3 Bxg3ch 15.hxg3 Qxh1 16.Qxb5ch Kf8 (Bd7 17.Qe5ch Be6 18.d5 +/-) 17.fxe4 +-

Simplest and best for White is:

13.Qxb5ch!! Kd8 (We follow a game I played against Fritz 12: 14.fxe4 a6 15.Qd3 Nb4 16.Qc3 Nxa2 17.Rxa2 Bxg3ch 18.hxg3 Qxe4ch 19.Kf2 Bxa2 20.Na3 Qf5ch 21.Qf3 Qxf3ch 22.gxf3 Ke7 23.Bc4 Bxc4 24.Nxc4 & according to GM Lev Alburt the simplest win is b2/Ba3ch with an extra piece in the endgame.

What is critical is the variation 8...Ne6!; according to GM Alburt, Gligorich thought that White had an advantage after 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bxd7ch, but I don't think that White has anything better than 10...Qxd7 11.d4 unclear/=.

A potentially new try in this variation is:

8...Ne6 9.Bxb5ch Bd7 10.Bc4! (Keeping the Bishop on gives both players scope for original play. Two possiblities  A)  10...Bc6  B) 10...Nb6

10...Bc6 11.d3 f5 12.Ng3 g6 (Nef4 13.Bxf4 Nxf4 14.O-O Nxg2 15.Nd2 Nh4 16.Qe2 Qf6 17.Rae1 O-O-O 18.Qxe5 +/=) 13.O-O Bg7 14.Nd2 O-O 15.Re1 +/=

10...Nb6 11.Bb3 Bc6 12.d3 Qd7 13.O-O O-O-O 14.Bc2 f5 15.Ng5 +/=
  
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