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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) French cheating at Olympiad (Read 10082 times)
TalJechin
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #132 - 08/01/12 at 12:00:31
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Dink Heckler wrote on 08/01/12 at 10:38:23:
TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 08:07:03:
Dink Heckler wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:56:32:
But the context here is a far longer chess career, as highlighted by Girkassa; 2-4 years for a cyclist or footballer is practically forever.


Really? Most footballers seem to be active for about two decades unless critical injuries stop their careers. And Lance Armstrong also lasted a couple of decades on the bike, despite serious illness and doping accusations.

Some athletes have even won a gold medal after a suspension, Sotomayor in the high jump for example...


Two decades??! That's wildly optimistic except in wildly rare cases.


It sounds rather realistic to me. Most footballers reach their club's A-team around the age of 16-21 and retire around their mid to late 30s, so they may be slightly short of 20 years but still active during two decades.

Zlatan reached the A-team of Malmö FF in 1999, so he's already been active in three different decades, and he's only 30 or 31 I think...

Maybe you're talking about their peak as sportsmen, which is of course much shorter - still, the peak in pay may come later than the professional peak, as with Eto'o for example...
And the professional peak is probably not much longer for chessplayers than for others...
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #131 - 08/01/12 at 10:38:23
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TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 08:07:03:
Dink Heckler wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:56:32:
But the context here is a far longer chess career, as highlighted by Girkassa; 2-4 years for a cyclist or footballer is practically forever.


Really? Most footballers seem to be active for about two decades unless critical injuries stop their careers. And Lance Armstrong also lasted a couple of decades on the bike, despite serious illness and doping accusations.

Some athletes have even won a gold medal after a suspension, Sotomayor in the high jump for example...


Two decades??! That's wildly optimistic except in wildly rare cases.
  
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Keano
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #130 - 08/01/12 at 08:11:32
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TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:35:25:
Engine use in chess should be comparable with doping in other sports. And those convicted for doping usually gets 2-4 years suspension - and get suspended for life if they're caught a second time.

So 1.5 - 3 years, is a punishment that seem to be in line with international praxis.


That was the first comparison I thought of, but actually I think engine use in chess is worse than doping. Its like someone in the womens 100m getting Usain Bolt to put a wig and dress on and pretend to be them.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #129 - 08/01/12 at 08:07:03
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Dink Heckler wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:56:32:
But the context here is a far longer chess career, as highlighted by Girkassa; 2-4 years for a cyclist or footballer is practically forever.


Really? Most footballers seem to be active for about two decades unless critical injuries stop their careers. And Lance Armstrong also lasted a couple of decades on the bike, despite serious illness and doping accusations.

Some athletes have even won a gold medal after a suspension, Sotomayor in the high jump for example...
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #128 - 08/01/12 at 07:56:32
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But the context here is a far longer chess career, as highlighted by Girkassa; 2-4 years for a cyclist or footballer is practically forever.

@Igor, that one made me laugh  Smiley
  
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TalJechin
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #127 - 08/01/12 at 07:35:25
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Engine use in chess should be comparable with doping in other sports. And those convicted for doping usually gets 2-4 years suspension - and get suspended for life if they're caught a second time.

So 1.5 - 3 years, is a punishment that seem to be in line with international praxis.
  
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Igor
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #126 - 08/01/12 at 07:28:31
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imho the engine (Marzolo) should be punished more than the GUI (Feller)  Angry
  
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trw
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #125 - 08/01/12 at 07:03:58
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Stigma wrote on 08/01/12 at 03:13:59:
trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 00:53:08:

Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-case-fide-confirms-suspension-...


So one person got significantly less, not two as you claimed.

Marzolo evidently got a "discount" because he confessed and cooperated. His testimony might well be what eventually ensures the bans on the others stand (and hold up in court if indeed they do).

3 months off is still significant in my opinion as thats 10% less a punishment. I see you may disagree here but I don't. I think both players got held to a completely different litmus test for the same crime.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #124 - 08/01/12 at 04:55:23
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For Marzolo, the punishment is even lighter than one year and six months, as the last nine months are on probation. So if I understand correctly, he is only banned for nine months, while the following nine months he can play, but is watched closely. While it is normal that confession helps to reduce punishment, this seems like a very light punishment to me.

And also, three years sounds like a very light maximum penalty set by FIDE, considering that a chess player's career can last for a whole life. A lifetime ban is too harsh IMO, but three years? If Feller continues to play chess, he will probably still be a very strong player in 40 years. In that perspective, three years (or two years and nine months) is not that much for such a severe crime.
  
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Stigma
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #123 - 08/01/12 at 03:13:59
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trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 00:53:08:

Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-case-fide-confirms-suspension-...


So one person got significantly less, not two as you claimed.

Marzolo evidently got a "discount" because he confessed and cooperated. His testimony might well be what eventually ensures the bans on the others stand (and hold up in court if indeed they do).
  
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trw
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #122 - 08/01/12 at 00:53:08
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/01/12 at 00:23:42:
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A life ban seems too harsh but three years seems too light. At any rate, one should note 3 years was only the harshest punishment given out to the three of them! The only two got significantly less.





Two years and nine months is not significantly less than 3 years, it's symbolically less. 

Having said that, I don't know why any of them would get less than the maximum penalty. A lifetime ban does seem a bit harsh for a young player, but for a captain of the national team it's appropriate. 

I've been told by people who know Hauchard that he's a really nice guy. It's sad that a nice person did this, but the penalty is for the crime, not for how nice the person is.

Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-case-fide-confirms-suspension-...
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #121 - 08/01/12 at 00:23:42
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A life ban seems too harsh but three years seems too light. At any rate, one should note 3 years was only the harshest punishment given out to the three of them! The only two got significantly less.


Two years and nine months is not significantly less than 3 years, it's symbolically less. 

Having said that, I don't know why any of them would get less than the maximum penalty. A lifetime ban does seem a bit harsh for a young player, but for a captain of the national team it's appropriate. 

I've been told by people who know Hauchard that he's a really nice guy. It's sad that a nice person did this, but the penalty is for the crime, not for how nice the person is.
  
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trw
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #120 - 07/31/12 at 23:39:38
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Keano wrote on 07/31/12 at 08:04:43:
This should really be a case of a life ban I think. 3 years is far too soft on them.


A life ban seems too harsh but three years seems too light. At any rate, one should note 3 years was only the harshest punishment given out to the three of them! The only two got significantly less.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #119 - 07/31/12 at 19:51:05
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Keano wrote on 07/31/12 at 08:04:43:
This should really be a case of a life ban I think. 3 years is far too soft on them.


When I read the full 25-pages-PDF given at FIDE site I learnt that Par. 3.2 of the FIDE Code of Ethics states: “Anyone acting in contravention of this code can be excluded from participation in all FIDE tournaments or from specific types of tournaments for a period of up to 3 years. Weight shall be given to the type of violation and to any previous violations in decided upon the length of the exclusion period”.

In fact, this means that FIDE ethics commission has chosen the highest possible sanction for Hauchard and just a little less for Feller. Which is a signal by itself, I'd say.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #118 - 07/31/12 at 19:25:06
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TalJechin wrote on 07/31/12 at 16:27:03:
Blue Flaneur wrote on 07/31/12 at 15:56:05:
At least there was some justice. cheatin' europeans.


Says the guy with a French sounding alias...  Grin



self-ownage  Embarrassed still made me chuckle.
  
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