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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) French cheating at Olympiad (Read 10075 times)
Katalyst
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #147 - 08/25/12 at 18:58:06
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/24/12 at 18:13:48:

This site doesn't need to worry about defamation suits based on what bloggers write. Think of all the suits that would be filed on sports sites if that was the case!  Shocked


Makes sense, what about the bloggers themselves though? I would have thought they would be open to lawsuits, otherwise anyone could say anything, I suppose they pretty much do anyway at the moment but shouldn't they be liable in theory?
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #146 - 08/24/12 at 18:13:48
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Ivanhcuk has openly accused Topalov of cheating in an interview. I don't have the source right now, but the interview was reported in chessbase, chessvibes, and I think Europe Echecs.

This site doesn't need to worry about defamation suits based on what bloggers write. Think of all the suits that would be filed on sports sites if that was the case!  Shocked
  
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Tricklev
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #145 - 08/24/12 at 15:48:02
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Bibs wrote on 08/24/12 at 12:17:07:
Konstriktor wrote on 08/19/12 at 18:53:01:
Neric wrote on 08/19/12 at 14:06:34:
The subject is: Some french guys got punished for using the Topalov-system while Topalov himself is still participating in high class events, right?

The Topalov-system?
Any hard evidence on that one?


Suggest this be deleted.
Chesspub likely does not wish to open itself to defamation suits.
Neric - watch yourself please. Such an attitude doesn't endear. 


It´s very unlikely that a forum would get a defamation suit following one posters suspicion.

The topic has been up for discussion before, and I haven't seen a defamation suit against Kasimdzhanov,  Morozevich, Short and others, maybe I haven´t looked deep enough though.
  
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Bibs
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #144 - 08/24/12 at 12:17:07
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Konstriktor wrote on 08/19/12 at 18:53:01:
Neric wrote on 08/19/12 at 14:06:34:
The subject is: Some french guys got punished for using the Topalov-system while Topalov himself is still participating in high class events, right?

The Topalov-system?
Any hard evidence on that one?


Suggest this be deleted.
Chesspub likely does not wish to open itself to defamation suits.
Neric - watch yourself please. Such an attitude doesn't endear. 
  
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Konstriktor
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #143 - 08/19/12 at 18:53:01
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Neric wrote on 08/19/12 at 14:06:34:
The subject is: Some french guys got punished for using the Topalov-system while Topalov himself is still participating in high class events, right?

The Topalov-system?
Any hard evidence on that one?
  
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Neric
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #142 - 08/19/12 at 14:06:34
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The subject is: Some french guys got punished for using the Topalov-system while Topalov himself is still participating in high class events, right?
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #141 - 08/18/12 at 22:35:53
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The topic of doping has spanned at least three distinct threads. Please, if you wish to continue the discussion, create a topic in the "Chit Chat" section. 

I'll come back later and see if there's a way to combine all these different comments into another thread.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #140 - 08/18/12 at 19:57:06
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Tricklev wrote on 08/18/12 at 11:08:45:
Now this is very offtopic for a generall chess discussion

Indeed, can we stick to the subject please? Roll Eyes
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #139 - 08/19/12 at 05:35:02
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Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #138 - 08/18/12 at 09:11:47
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I've just read that all 3 have been handed bans by the FIDE ethics committee, so they won't be able to play any FIDE tournaments for a few years.
  
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Stigma
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #137 - 08/02/12 at 01:52:47
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trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 22:42:35:

I did say it was my position from the outset that two people got significantly less  Shocked Strange... You both knew I said that. so what was the question?  Roll Eyes


Quote:
trw: Only two people got significantly less.

SmyslovFan: Two years and nine months is not significantly less than 3 years, it's symbolically less.

trw: Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.


See? You stressed Marzolo's punishment (in bold), which was irrelevant to SmyslovFan's assertion. Everyone already agreed that's significantly less.

Anyway it's clear now what you meant. I just wanted to point out the way you argued it was confusing (at least to me).

On the real issue (is the 3 month difference significant?) I think it's just their way of giving Hauchard the hardest punishment of the three (he was supposed to be the responsible team captain after all), while still giving Feller something near the maximum 3 years.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #136 - 08/01/12 at 22:42:35
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Stigma wrote on 08/01/12 at 16:04:00:
trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:03:58:
Stigma wrote on 08/01/12 at 03:13:59:
trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 00:53:08:

Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-case-fide-confirms-suspension-...


So one person got significantly less, not two as you claimed.

Marzolo evidently got a "discount" because he confessed and cooperated. His testimony might well be what eventually ensures the bans on the others stand (and hold up in court if indeed they do).

3 months off is still significant in my opinion as thats 10% less a punishment. I see you may disagree here but I don't. I think both players got held to a completely different litmus test for the same crime.


It's impossible to argue with you when you keep shifting the ground. First you say two people got significantly less, then you point out (in bold) that 1 year 6 months is significantly less. But when it's pointed out to you only one player got that, suddenly 2 years 9 months is also significantly less... 

If that was your position you should have said so from the outset.

TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 08:07:03:

Some athletes have even won a gold medal after a suspension, Sotomayor in the high jump for example...

Or for a very fresh example, Vinokourov in the 2012 Olympic cycling road race.


I did say it was my position from the outset that two people got significantly less  Shocked Strange... You both knew I said that. so what was the question?  Roll Eyes
  
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Stigma
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #135 - 08/01/12 at 16:04:00
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trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:03:58:
Stigma wrote on 08/01/12 at 03:13:59:
trw wrote on 08/01/12 at 00:53:08:

Marzolo for 1 year and 6 months. HALF the time: IE: Significantly less.
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/french-cheating-case-fide-confirms-suspension-...


So one person got significantly less, not two as you claimed.

Marzolo evidently got a "discount" because he confessed and cooperated. His testimony might well be what eventually ensures the bans on the others stand (and hold up in court if indeed they do).

3 months off is still significant in my opinion as thats 10% less a punishment. I see you may disagree here but I don't. I think both players got held to a completely different litmus test for the same crime.


It's impossible to argue with you when you keep shifting the ground. First you say two people got significantly less, then you point out (in bold) that 1 year 6 months is significantly less. But when it's pointed out to you only one player got that, suddenly 2 years 9 months is also significantly less... 

If that was your position you should have said so from the outset.

TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 08:07:03:

Some athletes have even won a gold medal after a suspension, Sotomayor in the high jump for example...

Or for a very fresh example, Vinokourov in the 2012 Olympic cycling road race.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #134 - 08/01/12 at 15:21:26
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Keano wrote on 08/01/12 at 08:11:32:
TalJechin wrote on 08/01/12 at 07:35:25:
Engine use in chess should be comparable with doping in other sports. And those convicted for doping usually gets 2-4 years suspension - and get suspended for life if they're caught a second time.

So 1.5 - 3 years, is a punishment that seem to be in line with international praxis.


That was the first comparison I thought of, but actually I think engine use in chess is worse than doping. Its like someone in the womens 100m getting Usain Bolt to put a wig and dress on and pretend to be them.


True, but on the other hand I doubt any chessplayers (except perhaps the whiniest bad losers) would feel cheated if their opponent turns out positive for steroids, efedrine or a caffeine level equal to 20 cups of coffee...
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #133 - 08/01/12 at 14:40:28
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Those are by no means representative cases.
  
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