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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) French cheating at Olympiad (Read 10138 times)
Matemax
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #42 - 03/25/11 at 09:55:10
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TN wrote on 03/25/11 at 07:32:01:
If a 15-minute time delay on the live game transmission (if the games are being broadcast) is used in conjunction with the prohibition of the usage of electronic devices in the playing venue is used in every FIDE-rated tournament, then I think the chances of cheaters being caught will be greatly increased. 

Using metal detectors before the event could also work well, combined with the above suggestion.

As long as this remains on professional ground. I already feel  Angry about some existing FIDE regulations when used at amateur level. 

Of course there is cheating at amateur level as well - "traditional" weaker players have eye contact (or even ask, talk) to stronger ones. This is a "traditional" team aspect - mainly used within team competitions and vanishing today.

I did not see amateurs cheating within Swiss-tourneys, but is surely happens (there was a famous incident in Germany about 10 years ago - an amateur using technical help announcing mate in 6 (think so) to a grandmaster - well one just could call him an idiot  Grin)
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #41 - 03/25/11 at 07:32:01
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If a 15-minute time delay on the live game transmission (if the games are being broadcast) is used in conjunction with the prohibition of the usage of electronic devices in the playing venue is used in every FIDE-rated tournament, then I think the chances of cheaters being caught will be greatly increased. 

Using metal detectors before the event could also work well, combined with the above suggestion.
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #40 - 03/25/11 at 01:03:02
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TopNotch wrote on 03/24/11 at 20:26:11:
What troubles me more though, is what remedy is there for the cheated parties like David Howell etc, and the ensuing growing paranoia that will surely result in tournament halls everywhere.

This worries me too, especially as you give an example of such paranoia yourself.

TopNotch wrote on 03/24/11 at 20:26:11:
this is important because it implies that had these three been in good standing with their fed, chances are this cheating would have gone un-reported.

This is pure speculation for which there is zero evidence.

Fromper wrote on 03/24/11 at 22:16:16:
Personally, I think that FIDE punishing these guys harshly and making an example of them might help scare others from following in their footsteps,

Scientific research indicates it doesn't work that way. What helps is the chance of getting caught, not scaring others with a harsh punishment.
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #39 - 03/24/11 at 22:16:16
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TopNotch wrote on 03/24/11 at 20:26:11:
No need to strip GM's of titles for cheating, but include in any punishment the forfeit of 100 or 200 elo points should help deter some offenders.

What troubles me more though, is what remedy is there for the cheated parties like David Howell etc, and the ensuing growing paranoia that will surely result in tournament halls everywhere. I am also left wondering how this Feller kid got his title norms, as this cheating scandal calls everything he has ever achieved in chess into question.

It seems to me that these two paragraphs are contradictory. If the cheating calls into question all of their past accomplishments, then isn't that a good reason to strip them of their titles? Who knows if they ever really deserved to have those titles?

Personally, I think that FIDE punishing these guys harshly and making an example of them might help scare others from following in their footsteps, which would be a good thing.

  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #38 - 03/24/11 at 21:00:01
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TopNotch wrote on 03/24/11 at 20:26:11:
I worry for the future legitimacy of chess as a sport.

Doping and sports - they coexist since ages. Within chess doping just means using external support. 


  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #37 - 03/24/11 at 20:26:11
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No need to strip GM's of titles for cheating, but include in any punishment the forfeit of 100 or 200 elo points should help deter some offenders.

What troubles me more though, is what remedy is there for the cheated parties like David Howell etc, and the ensuing growing paranoia that will surely result in tournament halls everywhere. I am also left wondering how this Feller kid got his title norms, as this cheating scandal calls everything he has ever achieved in chess into question.

I am also curious as to the motivation of the French Federation to expose their own players publicly like this, as the damage caused and stigma left will extend to far more than the three guilty parties. According to Feller the entire expose was politically based, because he and the other two supported Karpov while the Federation supported Ilyumzhinov (or vice versa), this is important because it implies that had these three been in good standing with their fed, chances are this cheating would have gone un-reported. This begs the question, how much cheating is really going on nowadays in OTB tournament chess, and if any of it is being ignored in some cases to protect national interest.

For an Olympiad to be tainted in such a way leaves a foul taste in ones mouth, and I worry for the future legitimacy of chess as a sport. 

I was really hoping for the sake of chess that the French Federation had overreached and the players would have been vindicated and proven innocent. Alas, a very sad day indeed.

Tops  Sad
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #36 - 03/24/11 at 13:34:59
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Does it seem likely that GM Feller's career in professional chess is finished? What organizers will invite him to tournaments after being caught cheating. There are many other GM's out there, so its not like the chess community is missing out on anything special if he doesn't play anymore.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #35 - 03/24/11 at 09:57:09
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Hauchard is only banned from being a captain. As far as I know he is not restricted in terms of coaching or playing.

I agree with TopNotch.


Yes, I agree too. Cheating is becoming a serious problem with the increasing presence of more and more small machines, and it´s almost impossible to have a metal detector in small tournaments. On the other hand I think that the type of FIDE organization until our days is another part of the problem. Cheating in my view is more problematic than doping in other sports and those french players defending themselves by saying that a break in the freedom of phone communications are not valid in a court of law against them, speak a lot about the seriousness of this situation.  Undecided
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #34 - 03/24/11 at 06:06:09
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Markovich wrote on 03/24/11 at 03:37:46:
I understand that somebody once pulled open the door of a stall at some US event in the 1940's, and found Rueben Fine sitting there, deeply engaged with a copy of MCO, while his opponent awaited his return. Caught with his pants down, you might say, but somehow nothing ever came of it. He was our big WCh hope for awhile, so maybe that explains it.


worse about 10 years ago at a big US swiss one guy went to the bathroom. He heard lots of 'foreign language' muttering from a stall. He went and reported it to a td. TD busted open the stall and a certain GM was talking to a guy with a pocket set who was playing one of the big cash under sections.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #33 - 03/24/11 at 03:37:46
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I understand that somebody once pulled open the door of a stall at some US event in the 1940's, and found Rueben Fine sitting there, deeply engaged with a copy of MCO, while his opponent awaited his return. Caught with his pants down, you might say, but somehow nothing ever came of it. He was our big WCh hope for awhile, so maybe that explains it.
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #32 - 03/23/11 at 23:50:18
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Gambit wrote on 03/23/11 at 17:25:19:
Agreed, you have a point there. But if someone goes to the toilet too often, the opponent may get suspicious.


I do go there every 10 minutes but I don't even have an iPhone.

BTW, Feller is playing at the individual EuCh.
( FireBird won in the first game and drew with Romanishin in the 2nd... )
  

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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #31 - 03/23/11 at 17:25:19
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Agreed, you have a point there. But if someone goes to the toilet too often, the opponent may get suspicious.
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #30 - 03/23/11 at 10:42:17
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Gambit wrote on 03/23/11 at 06:28:18:
We in U.S.A. had a case at the World Open, years ago. This player was getting correct moves through headphones. An accomplice was sitting in another room and analysing the game!
Thankfully the guy was found out in the tournament
and evicted. His games were scored as losses for him.

I can't help thinking that all these known cheating cases are only the tip of the iceberg - how many never get caught? How many players nip into the toilets with their iPhone to analyze a crucial position once or twice per game without anyone ever suspecting? Angry
Cheating in different ways was always fairly common in chess tournaments, I can remember seeing dozens of cases with my own eyes, but now it has become too easy ... and for some the temptation will be too great. Sad
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #29 - 03/23/11 at 06:28:18
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This is gross, just gross! We in U.S.A. had a case at the World Open, years ago. This player was getting correct moves through headphones. An accomplice was sitting in another room and analysing the game!
Thankfully the guy was found out in the tournament
and evicted. His games were scored as losses for him.

Recently another case occured where a player was getting assistance through a CIA-type listening device in the ear. He was found out, the device was located, and he was evicted and banned from the tournament.
Our chess federation, unlike FIDE, takes allegations of cheating very seriously. Back in 2007, Chess Life magazine had a major article about cheating. Why do you think computers, cell phones, etc. are not allowed in the tournament room?

I don't know much about this case, but it seems like cheating was done by using cell phones. FIDE should have fined the guilty parties and banned them from playing for a certain time. Revoking a title can only be done in the most extreme situations. Moreover, I do not think FIDE has the stomach for it. 

My question is, will FIDE make the necessary conclusions based on this case? Will it tighten up regulations dealing with cheating?
  
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Re: French cheating at Olympiad
Reply #28 - 03/22/11 at 23:29:17
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Mortal Games wrote on 03/22/11 at 17:06:32:
Marzolo - Banned for 5 years.
Feller - Banned for 3 with 2 years of work in the federation or any association. If he do not accept - 5 years.
Hauchard - Banned for life! 


Hauchard is only banned from being a captain. As far as I know he is not restricted in terms of coaching or playing.

I agree with TopNotch.
  

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