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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Breyer (Read 72235 times)
MartinC
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Re: Breyer
Reply #17 - 01/14/12 at 22:07:34
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I guess some combination of weekend tournaments, limited time to work on openings, habits formed pre computers/ databases and (for the titled folk at least) expecting to score very well unless actively surprised in the opening. 

Never been, but I'd imagine it has to get more theoretical at the 4NCL when everyone has time to prepare etc?

The thing that really depressed me about this was one year when after about half the British they'd managed to have more Morra gambits than open sicillians.....

Actually its some of the ~21-2200 folk who scare me more, because they seem to have been using the same very shaky openings basically forever. Doesn't stop them doing well of course, but still!
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #16 - 01/14/12 at 19:35:09
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But what explains people playing the Vienna, Four Knights, Scotch, etc. at the 2200-2400 level? As well as anti-Sicilians and the Colle/Torre/London/Veresov? I had an IM play the Veresov twice against me a couple years ago. Another IM I have played against many times plays exclusively the Torre, and against 1. e4 e5, the Scotch.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #15 - 01/14/12 at 09:49:45
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I've often thought that must be some serious differences between countries, and even regions within them, in terms of how theoretical everything gets.

Certainly club level chess in the northern UK really isn't theoretical at all, and the main line Lopez isn't at all common from blacks perspective either. I don't know why.

I've always tried, and have 117 games with 1 e4 on my database 16 reaching the position after 3 Bb5, and then mostly side lines.

A grand total of 2 games then reached the main line closed Lopez position proper.... Also one 8 a3 anti Marshall and one Open Lopez where I forgot the early move order!
(which is what happens if you never see things in practice.).
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #14 - 01/14/12 at 08:39:42
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Quote:
I am surprised you can play the Breyer so often. At around my level (2250 FIDE), I get anti-Sicilians about 85% of the time when I play the Sicilian, and at least 90% of the time I get d4 sidelines when I attempt to play the Grünfeld. When I try to play 1...e5, more than 90% of the time I get the Bishop's Opening, Four Knights, Scotch, 2. Qe2, 2. d3, Vienna, etc. Not sure why, but having a chance to play main line openings is a rarity for me.


My team plays on the 6th or 7th level (generally all players below 2000) and in 25 years  i have almost never seen the Breyer variation or any other major spanish variation (perhaps a Marshall Attack). Italian, Two Knights Defense, Vienna, Kings Gambit, Scotch and Bishops Opening are very popular. 

Against Sicilian you can expect an Open Sicilian around 50%, the other 50% are mainly KID, 2.c3 and Morra Gambit and GPA.

In the closed games Queen Pawns like London or Torre (early Bf4 and Bg5) are very popular but even when you have the starting position of any major defense you will see then very often early e3 or Bf4 setups. The 2nb best player in my team plays every time as White d4,c4, Nf3, e3, Bd3(e2),0-0,Nc3,Bd2 (Bb2 after early a3,b4)),Rc1 and later (a3), b4.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #13 - 01/14/12 at 03:39:30
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I am surprised you can play the Breyer so often. At around my level (2250 FIDE), I get anti-Sicilians about 85% of the time when I play the Sicilian, and at least 90% of the time I get d4 sidelines when I attempt to play the Grünfeld. When I try to play 1...e5, more than 90% of the time I get the Bishop's Opening, Four Knights, Scotch, 2. Qe2, 2. d3, Vienna, etc. Not sure why, but having a chance to play main line openings is a rarity for me.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #12 - 01/13/12 at 17:24:50
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Girkassa wrote on 08/13/11 at 09:50:07:

Really? Are you saying White usually deviates before 9...Nb8? To my experience, I get to play the Breyer in about 50 % of my 1.e4 e5 games.


I reckon that's true in games with opponents above 2100. Below, much less so.


Girkassa wrote on 08/13/11 at 09:50:07:

I've found it more of a problem to play for a win at higher levels, where White players understand more about Black's plans, playing more prophylactically.


Above a certain level, playing the Breyer is like what's meant by the football expression "parking the bus".
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #11 - 01/12/12 at 16:34:50
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There are also a few Breyer videos here:

http://www.chessclub.com/chessfm/index/ronen/index.html
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #10 - 08/13/11 at 09:50:07
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gewgaw wrote on 07/17/11 at 08:11:59:
Breyer is a very good defence, unfortunately you won´t play it very often. Investigate more time in open games, Gustafsson´s DVD is very useful.
Chalifman´s books about Anand´s repertoire are still useful and cover the breyer and far more; volume 1 or 2;


Really? Are you saying White usually deviates before 9...Nb8? To my experience, I get to play the Breyer in about 50 % of my 1.e4 e5 games.

Paddy wrote on 07/20/11 at 12:44:07:

Thanks for the link! The lines shown by Avrukh involving a sac on d5 look very attractive, but unfortunately in many other lines of the Breyer Black's position remains cramped and rather passive (although solid and harmonious), not easy to play and no fun at all for sub-2000 players playing for a win with Black. Black gets to play about 14 easy moves but then his suffering starts!


I was 2000-ish when I started playing the Breyer, I studied it thoroughly, and I actually found it a great weapon at that level, as many White players didn't realize how to play against it after they were out of book. Some would play d5 too early, some would allow ...d5 at a point where it was advantageous for Black, etc. I've found it more of a problem to play for a win at higher levels, where White players understand more about Black's plans, playing more prophylactically.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #9 - 07/20/11 at 12:44:07
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ghenghisclown wrote on 07/19/11 at 04:51:20:
Anyone looked at http://www.whychess.org/node/67 yet?


Thanks for the link! The lines shown by Avrukh involving a sac on d5 look very attractive, but unfortunately in many other lines of the Breyer Black's position remains cramped and rather passive (although solid and harmonious), not easy to play and no fun at all for sub-2000 players playing for a win with Black. Black gets to play about 14 easy moves but then his suffering starts!
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #8 - 07/19/11 at 04:51:20
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Anyone looked at http://www.whychess.org/node/67 yet?
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #7 - 07/18/11 at 11:46:16
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spagh3tti wrote on 06/17/11 at 12:41:51:
WillT wrote on 04/06/11 at 22:43:12:
Hi,

I'm interested in learning about the Breyer Variation, and wondered if you could recommend some sources?  I haven't been able to find a recent book about it.  Ronen Har-Zvi's done a series of videos for Chess.FM, but that's all I have so far.

Thanks,

Will


It's a sad state of affairs. I fell in love with the Breyer some 20 yrs ago and the romance is still ongoing. I have Blackstock's 1976 The Breyer System, which is ok for covering the basics and early sidelines, but a lot of today's stuff obviously isnt there. In Bikhovsky's 1993 The Closed Spanish devoted to the Karpov-Zaitsev system there are three chapters that cover a few Breyer lines via the transposition 9...Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11.Nbd2 Bf8 12.Bc2 Nb8. That's it, at least to my knowledge. Sverre and Johannessen's 2007 The Ruy Lopez: A guide for Black went so closee to being about the Breyer, too bad the Gm let himself be convinced, as he states in the introduction, to make it about something else  Angry


There's also a useful chapter in Flear's Ruy Lopez Main Line Everyman book.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #6 - 07/17/11 at 08:11:59
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Breyer is a very good defence, unfortunately you won´t play it very often. Investigate more time in open games, Gustafsson´s DVD is very useful.
Chalifman´s books about Anand´s repertoire are still useful and cover the breyer and far more; volume 1 or 2;
  
The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: Breyer
Reply #5 - 07/17/11 at 01:54:34
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Between this and the forthcoming book on the Ragozin, my repertoire is about to be "outed." I prefer good openings with less published material. It makes the exploration more fun and the results that much more satisfying...
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #4 - 06/17/11 at 13:17:30
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Ametanoitos wrote on 04/06/11 at 22:53:17:
Nope, there is not a recent work that reflects the current state of the theory of the Breyer (the only exception beeing the chesspub, but it is always the exception, so it doesn't really count as anybody always asks for sources other than chesspub). Actually, there are some lines that challenge the Breyer right now and the opening is played in every major tournament, so we should wait for things to "settle down" a bit before a new book is out on it. I think that the second edition of "Chess Advantage" by Kaufman will promote the Breyer as a repertoire choice but if i was him i would wait at least untill late 2012 before i publish a work on it.

Now the Romanishin's Nf1+Bg5 line and the "old" main-line with Nf1-Ng3+a4 are quite challenging in my opinion. The other lines have been met effectively by Carlsen (most recent is Topalov-Carlsen, Amber 2011), Hammer (probably he has worked with Carlsen on it) and Navara in practice (Kamsky, Mamedyarov and Anand are other notable practitioners of the Breyer with recent games on it)


http://www.newinchess.com/The_Kaufman_Repertoire_for_Black_and_White-p-955.html

December 2012. I think it's a misprint. Should probably be December 2011.
  
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Re: Breyer
Reply #3 - 06/17/11 at 12:41:51
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WillT wrote on 04/06/11 at 22:43:12:
Hi,

I'm interested in learning about the Breyer Variation, and wondered if you could recommend some sources?  I haven't been able to find a recent book about it.  Ronen Har-Zvi's done a series of videos for Chess.FM, but that's all I have so far.

Thanks,

Will


It's a sad state of affairs. I fell in love with the Breyer some 20 yrs ago and the romance is still ongoing. I have Blackstock's 1976 The Breyer System, which is ok for covering the basics and early sidelines, but a lot of today's stuff obviously isnt there. In Bikhovsky's 1993 The Closed Spanish devoted to the Karpov-Zaitsev system there are three chapters that cover a few Breyer lines via the transposition 9...Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11.Nbd2 Bf8 12.Bc2 Nb8. That's it, at least to my knowledge. Sverre and Johannessen's 2007 The Ruy Lopez: A guide for Black went so closee to being about the Breyer, too bad the Gm let himself be convinced, as he states in the introduction, to make it about something else  Angry
  
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