Poll
Poll Question: I prefer to play
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9.Ne1    
  18 (72.0%)
9.Nd2    
  7 (28.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Created by: raja on: 05/28/11 at 08:01:07 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2? (Read 15165 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #17 - 05/30/11 at 20:16:16
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Klick wrote on 05/30/11 at 19:46:37:
Would you give away too much information if you were to reveal if your lines are significant for the 9..Ne8 10.f3 f5 11.g4 variation as well? If it is I could spare myself a lot of work as I am considering having this in my arsenal as white vs 9..Ne8. Vs 9..Nd7 I am happy with the mainline 10. Be3.


Given the problem line hasn't shown up in practice yet, don't worry about it. Go ahead and use it for white.
  

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Klick
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #16 - 05/30/11 at 19:46:37
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Would you give away too much information if you were to reveal if your lines are significant for the 9..Ne8 10.f3 f5 11.g4 variation as well? If it is I could spare myself a lot of work as I am considering having this in my arsenal as white vs 9..Ne8. Vs 9..Nd7 I am happy with the mainline 10. Be3.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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BPaulsen
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #15 - 05/28/11 at 17:28:18
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Klick wrote on 05/28/11 at 08:33:57:
BPaulsen: did you bust it here in the ChessPub? In case you did, could you provide us with a link?


No, this was work I did in private. If by some off chance I actually get to use it in a game (very unlikely since I don't play the KID myself, but you never know what the future holds), I'll post it. To date, it hasn't shown up in practice yet, either, but if/when it does show up I'll post it.

The only hint I'll give is it's in a line that is currently not viewed well for black, but that's because black hasn't figured out the right piece set-up in practice yet.
  

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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #14 - 05/28/11 at 15:11:32
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I noticed Le Quang Liem playing 11. g4 again some days ago.  (One of his games was highlighted in the Yearbook article on this line from about last September, and another in a Chesspub update a couple of months ago.)  Of course, it has been played by various titled players going back to the 1950s.
« Last Edit: 05/28/11 at 17:09:24 by kylemeister »  
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Klick
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #13 - 05/28/11 at 08:33:57
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BPaulsen: did you bust it here in the ChessPub? In case you did, could you provide us with a link?
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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raja
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #12 - 05/28/11 at 08:01:07
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Added a poll
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #11 - 05/28/11 at 03:18:51
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BPaulsen wrote on 05/28/11 at 01:27:15:
TN wrote on 05/28/11 at 00:57:54:

One advantage of 9.Ne1 is that White can play 9...Nd7 10.f3 f5 11.g4, against which Black still hasn't found a clear route to equality.


I was a big fan of that line until I outright busted it in analysis last year (I had even done joint work with Ametanoitos on it). 

Nothing annoys me more than when I'm playing something, really enjoying the positions, scoring well online with it, and then...I bust it.

That's chess for you.


I usually keep playing the line, at least for a little while, until one of my opponents finds the bust.  Anyway it obviously depends on the competition; if you're playing FMs and above regularly it's probably best to move on, but at lower levels I usually make my opponents prove they've figured things out before I move on from an opening.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #10 - 05/28/11 at 01:27:15
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TN wrote on 05/28/11 at 00:57:54:

One advantage of 9.Ne1 is that White can play 9...Nd7 10.f3 f5 11.g4, against which Black still hasn't found a clear route to equality.


I was a big fan of that line until I outright busted it in analysis last year (I had even done joint work with Ametanoitos on it). 

Nothing annoys me more than when I'm playing something, really enjoying the positions, scoring well online with it, and then...I bust it.

That's chess for you.
  

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FIDE based on just 27 games.
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TN
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #9 - 05/28/11 at 00:57:54
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9.Nd2 is better than 9.Ne1 if Black does not play 9...a5!. 

One advantage of 9.Ne1 is that White can play 9...Nd7 10.f3 f5 11.g4, against which Black still hasn't found a clear route to equality.
  

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fling
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #8 - 05/27/11 at 21:16:41
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Fllg wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:55:48:
fling wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:07:36:

I agree with the second point. One good thing about the knight on d2, is that is actually performs a role on the kingside and in the center, by guarding e4 and it can also come to f1 to protect the squares in front of the king.


Stigma wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:30:18:

Yes, but one good thing about the knight on d3, is that it actually performs a role on the kingside and on the queenside, by supporting the c5 break (and sometimes b4), or jumping into b4 and c6, and it can also come to f2 to protect h3 and g4 from Black's threats to sacrifice.  Wink


That´s what I already said above.   Tongue






It was just an idea, actually. I don't think I have seen Nf1 either, but on the other hand, I don't play the KI myself!

I like Nd3 better than Nd2 as well, no disagreements.

I haven´t played this with Black for a long time but I don´t remember any line or game where the Nd2 actually lands on f1.
  
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #7 - 05/27/11 at 13:01:09
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You're right. I skimmed the thread a bit too quickly. Sorry.
  

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Fllg
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #6 - 05/27/11 at 12:55:48
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fling wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:07:36:

I agree with the second point. One good thing about the knight on d2, is that is actually performs a role on the kingside and in the center, by guarding e4 and it can also come to f1 to protect the squares in front of the king.


I haven´t played this with Black for a long time but I don´t remember any line or game where the Nd2 actually lands on f1.

Stigma wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:30:18:

Yes, but one good thing about the knight on d3, is that it actually performs a role on the kingside and on the queenside, by supporting the c5 break (and sometimes b4), or jumping into b4 and c6, and it can also come to f2 to protect h3 and g4 from Black's threats to sacrifice.  Wink


That´s what I already said above.   Tongue



  
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #5 - 05/27/11 at 12:30:18
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fling wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:07:36:


I agree with the second point. One good thing about the knight on d2, is that is actually performs a role on the kingside and in the center, by guarding e4 and it can also come to f1 to protect the squares in front of the king.


Yes, but one good thing about the knight on d3, is that it actually performs a role on the kingside and on the queenside, by supporting the c5 break (and sometimes b4), or jumping into b4 and c6, and it can also come to f2 to protect h3 and g4 from Black's threats to sacrifice.  Wink
  

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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #4 - 05/27/11 at 12:24:20
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fling wrote on 05/27/11 at 12:07:36:
I agree with the second point. One good thing about the knight on d2, is that is actually performs a role on the kingside and in the center, by guarding e4 and it can also come to f1 to protect the squares in front of the king.


So you do not agree then.  Cheesy
  
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fling
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #3 - 05/27/11 at 12:07:36
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Fllg wrote on 05/27/11 at 11:46:02:

After 9.Nd2 the Knight usullay goes to c4 after c4-c5 or b3 after b2-b4 and plays no role on the kingside.

The current status is fine for Black after both moves. From Whites point of view I´d go for 9.Ne1 because it is more flexible than 9.Nd2.


I agree with the second point. One good thing about the knight on d2, is that is actually performs a role on the kingside and in the center, by guarding e4 and it can also come to f1 to protect the squares in front of the king.
  
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #2 - 05/27/11 at 11:46:02
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With 9.Ne1 White has the possibilty to use the Knight both actively on the queenside with Nd3, c4-c5, Nb4 or b2-b4, c4-c5, Nd3-b2-c4 and as an additional defender on the kingside with Nd3, f2-f3, Nf2 trying to slow down Blacks g5-g4.

After 9.Nd2 the Knight usullay goes to c4 after c4-c5 or b3 after b2-b4 and plays no role on the kingside.

The current status is fine for Black after both moves. From Whites point of view I´d go for 9.Ne1 because it is more flexible than 9.Nd2.
  
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Re: Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
Reply #1 - 05/27/11 at 11:28:06
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I don't know, who would know? There are pros and cons with both moves. E.g. the route Ne1-d3 is better to enforce c5 (or sometimes f4), but the knight is pretty poorly placed there for later action. On the other hand, the knight on d2 is well placed to jump into c4, if possible. But if you can't play c5, c4 will be occupied Smiley

You have to look at the variations that follow more concretely to determine which move suits you better. I don't know if one move is objectively better than the other.
  
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raja
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Which one is better 9.Ne1 or 9.Nd2?
05/27/11 at 10:47:36
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can any one please tell me the pros and cons of both the moves?Depending on which i will chose any one of the above moves to study from white's perspective.
  
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