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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00: French Defense, Pinson Variation (Read 24940 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #24 - 06/17/11 at 21:03:46
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MNb wrote on 06/17/11 at 20:56:59:
BPaulsen wrote on 06/17/11 at 20:23:07:
Why on Earth would 2. Nf3 d5 annoy you?

The only reason I can think of is that 3.Nc3 avoids the Winawer but proposes a line of the Steinitz: Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4.


That would be a very lame reason to get annoyed since that line only offers white a playable game and that's it.

Ironically, since this thread is about ...g5 related stuff, one of the responses to that line involves...*drum roll*...g5.

(1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. d4 c5 6. dxc5 Nc6 7. Bf4 Be7 intending to follow with ...g5)
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #23 - 06/17/11 at 20:56:59
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/17/11 at 20:23:07:
Why on Earth would 2. Nf3 d5 annoy you?

The only reason I can think of is that 3.Nc3 avoids the Winawer but proposes a line of the Steinitz: Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.d4.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #22 - 06/17/11 at 20:23:07
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BirdBrain wrote on 06/17/11 at 20:14:59:
Another interesting question to pose, then...

To me, 1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 just feels annoying to play from the Black side.  I don't like it.  I am sure I could play 2...c5, but I don't want to play the Sicilian either - I want to steer clear of theoretical waters, and more into less-explored variations where my opponent needs to think for himself.  I often find I do better against my opponents in these type of waters.

Do any other strong French players play 2...d5 when they see 2. Nf3, or do you choose something else, and why?


Why on Earth would 2. Nf3 d5 annoy you?

If the intention is to play a French, then 2. Nf3 will ultimately just produce a French. If your performance against 2. Nf3 sucks, then that's a problem with your knowledge of the French, and probably why you're annoyed with it.

I play 2...d5 because I know I'm going to get a good position out of the opening regardless of what white does from that point on.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #21 - 06/17/11 at 20:14:59
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Another interesting question to pose, then...

To me, 1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 just feels annoying to play from the Black side.  I don't like it.  I am sure I could play 2...c5, but I don't want to play the Sicilian either - I want to steer clear of theoretical waters, and more into less-explored variations where my opponent needs to think for himself.  I often find I do better against my opponents in these type of waters.

Do any other strong French players play 2...d5 when they see 2. Nf3, or do you choose something else, and why?
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #20 - 06/17/11 at 18:45:09
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General consensus?

There was an article, about 15 yrs ago, by Mikhail Gurevich about the g5 push in the French. 

There's an even older article, "The move g7-g5 in the French Defense" by Aleksei Kosikov in Opening Preparation by Dvoretsky and Yusupov (1994).

The answer to the question of when to play g7-g5 in the French is a very long and involved one, without a clear consensus.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #19 - 06/17/11 at 18:42:02
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Well, it typically occurs as part of an assault on White's center, in contexts where the center is closed plus some element(s) like Black being ahead in development/White's king being a bit exposed/White's pieces being placed a bit awkwardly.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #18 - 06/17/11 at 17:45:29
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I have been thinking about a better way to discuss the idea of ...g5 in the French.  I know that the idea is used, but maybe the better way to approach this - what is the general consensus of when it is appropriate to play ...g5 in the French?
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #17 - 06/17/11 at 17:09:30
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Fair enough, I suppose.  But to discuss the actual lines here for both sides - if White "prevents" ...g4 with 3. h3, then we can play into the Borg setup mentioned earlier with ...h6.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #16 - 06/17/11 at 15:45:16
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Old principles of the sort "you can't expect to launch a successful wing attack when you are not developed and your opponent is better-placed in the center" actually still have quite a bit of validity.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #15 - 06/17/11 at 15:22:06
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No, it isn't anything like that.  It is more with the idea of an early g5-g4.  I suppose that if White plays 3. h3, then g4 is stopped temporarily, and the pawn structure (d6-e6) is similar to the Hippo, but there is no b6 either.  It is a bit different.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #14 - 06/17/11 at 12:11:46
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the basic idea seems to be to gain a tempo on the normal hippo? Admirable rubbish.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #13 - 06/17/11 at 10:50:18
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TN, that is fine, even that the line is dubious.  Your discussion reminds me of what Conzipe on chess.com came up with for White against this line - maybe you could look at his analysis.  It runs deeper than yours, but on the same course.

I like the idea of ...Nc6, but I am not as big a fan of ..c5 that early, strange as it seems.  Call it psychological...I do play 1...b6, so maybe 3...b6 is up my alley also.   Thanks for that!
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #12 - 06/17/11 at 05:47:05
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BirdBrain wrote on 06/17/11 at 02:07:47:
Also, considering that TuffGong (whoever that is) played it before me, does that mean that their name is attributed to this opening?  If so, I will take my name off it.

No, ask TuffGong to produce his or her birth certificate! Wiki won't support undocumented aliens, or will it? 
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #11 - 06/17/11 at 03:37:52
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To be honest, this line is just dubious. 

One good answer is 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 g5 3.d4 (...g4 will only weaken Black's position more) 3...g4 4.Ne5 h5 5.h3! (exploiting the weakened kingside) 5...d6 6.Nd3 Bg7 (other moves can be met similarly) 7.c3 Nf6 (it's difficult to suggest an improvement; 7...gh3 8.g3! is bad for Black) 8.Bg5! and White is comfortably better. 

Going slightly off-topic, you should stop playing 3...Nc6 against the Advance as well. If you really don't want to play ...c5 then 3...b6 is a playable alternative.
  
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Re: French Defense, Pinson Variation
Reply #10 - 06/17/11 at 02:10:23
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Buecker, considering that I do normally play g5-g4 followed by h5, what do you think about the idea of sacking these pawns for open lines on the kingside?  This is my idea - to play for 0-0-0.  It may be a bit of a dream, and it may make more sense to reserve g5-g4 for a better moment...
  
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