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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle (Read 107518 times)
Markovich
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #30 - 07/08/11 at 18:41:33
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It'd be interesting to list all cities with openings or opening variations named after them.  A only a few would be American, but I can think of Chicago (defense to the Smith-Morra), Wilkes-Barre (Pennsylvania; another name for the Traxler) and Manhattan (variation of the Queen's Gambit).   I am fairly sure that the most represented nation would be Germany, especially if formerly German Polish cities were included.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #29 - 07/08/11 at 17:20:58
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Yeah, you're right. Got carried away there for a while. In Swedish it's also Grünfeldindiskt - though the trend here is definitely to shorten the names, so simply Grünfeld is the most common by far, though the other Indians keep the "-indiskt", so it may be a sign that the Grünfeld is a very strong opening.

Similarly, already in the 1980s older players complained that: "dagens ungdom spelar inte schack, de spelar bara Najdorf"
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #28 - 07/08/11 at 16:18:27
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TalJechin wrote on 07/08/11 at 14:22:44:
According to wiki, the Grunfeld seems officially a Defence not an Indian... Alternatively, just "The Grunfeld".

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnfeld_Defence

there's a list of 13 book on the Grunfeld and not a single one calls it 'Grunfeld Indian' in the title, though one is about "Indian Defences"...

That's the English wiki. The German http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnfeld-Indische_Verteidigung calls it "Grünfeld-Indische Verteidigung". The Euwe opening series was influential on the "Continent". It had cult status and went through several editions in the Netherlands and Germany, not so much in Britain. Meanwhile, MCO4, MCO5 and MCO6 were reluctant in using new terminology. I'll write about that later.

Wikipedia is no more "official" than FIDE's own opening lists, which were full of nonsense and never binding for anybody. By the way: Alekhine - Grünfeld is said to be G.'s first game with 3...d5 (untrue), Ben-Oni was not a manuscript, it was a book, and not exclusively on 1...c5. 

Quote:
Btw, was the Alekhine ever an Indian?

I don't think so. Tartakower defined 1.d4 Nf6 as Indian, and if c2-c4 followed in the next move(s), it was "Vollindisch" [Full Indian?]. Other moves were 2.Nc3 "Halbindisch" [Half Indian?], 2.Nd2 "Dreiviertelindisch" [Three Quarter Indian?] and 2.Bg5 "Viertelindisch" [Quarter Indian?]. - Anyway, there is a remark in Kagans Neueste Schachnachrichten 1923, p. 144. Fahrni's booklet Die Aljechin-Verteidigung is mentioned, followed by the explanation in brackets: "(Indischer Zug 1...Sf6)". 

Regarding the Berlin Pleiades: this group of players had the admirable idea to try out the move Ng8-f6 in every opening. Surprisingly often that move was found to be strong. A one-trick-pony... I am not aware that they liked Ng8-h6 early in any opening. And 3...Nf6 in the Ruy Lopez was a bit like cheating. The Ruy Lopez was a dead, forgotten opening in those years, nobody played it.  Wink
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #27 - 07/08/11 at 15:51:22
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SWJediknight wrote on 07/08/11 at 15:19:11:
1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 is another Berlin Defence according to Wikipedia.  The opening 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.d5 is apparently known as the Berlin Gambit (though most online sources I can find that use this name give the move order 1.Nc3 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.d5, which must be far less common).  These are the only other two I can find, so we're up to four.


Five: Nimzo-Indian Defense: Classical Variation, Berlin Variation Macieja System (E39)
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 c5 5.dxc5 O-O 6.a3 Bxc5 7.Nf3 b6 8.Bf4 (from chess dot com)

Unfortunately, I suppose that "Berliner" doesn't count Wink

In the Open Games I think there was an analysis group in Berlin called the Pleiades (spelling?), which gave rise to numerous Berlin variations. 

Six: Spanish Game, Open Variations, Berlin Variation (C82) 1. e4 e5 2. Sf3 Sc6 3. Lb5 a6 4. La4 Sf6 5. O-O Sxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Lb3 d5 8. dxe5 Le6 9. c3 Sc5 (http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/opening/2484)
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #26 - 07/08/11 at 15:19:11
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1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 is another Berlin Defence according to Wikipedia.  The opening 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.d5 is apparently known as the Berlin Gambit (though most online sources I can find that use this name give the move order 1.Nc3 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.d5, which must be far less common).  These are the only other two I can find, so we're up to four.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #25 - 07/08/11 at 14:22:44
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Quote:
True, both terms are seen today. The Grünfeld Defence wasn't "converted" into the G. Indian, in the sense that the old name disappeared. But by imbedding the Grünfeld into a larger entity of 1...Nf6 systems (T.'s defining criterium for "Indian"), it was logical to call Grünfeld's System "Indian", and it was only a question of time that it would come up, as an alternative.


According to wiki, the Grunfeld seems officially a Defence not an Indian... Alternatively, just "The Grunfeld".

At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnfeld_Defence

there's a list of 13 book on the Grunfeld and not a single one calls it 'Grunfeld Indian' in the title, though one is about "Indian Defences"...

A related question may be the Benoni, apparently its origin is: 

Quote:
"Benoni" is a Hebrew term meaning "son of sorrow," the name of an 1825 Manuscript about this opening. "Whenever I felt in a sorrowful mood and wanted to take refuge from melancholy, I sat over a chessboard, for one or two hours according to circumstances. Thus this book came into being, and its name, Ben-Oni, 'Son of Sadness,' should indicate its origin." - Aaron Reinganum


Though it's a bit surprising how strong the impact the name has had (especially since it's not named after a chess player). Almost anything with an early d4 c5 d5 seems universally agreed on as a "Benoni" of sorts, except the Benko / Blumenfeldt and perhaps the "is it a KID or Modern Benoni" question.

Btw, was the Alekhine ever an Indian?


Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/08/11 at 12:47:05:
My guess is Leningrad has the most openings named after it.


You mean openings and not variations? Then the Vienna and London would tie. There are probably more...

If I were to guess the city with most variations, then Berlin may be a likely winner, though at the moment I can only name two (like all the other cities I mention), i.e. 3...Nf6 in the Spanish and 5.Ne5 Nf6 the KG but in the extensive theory of the Open Games there are probably more.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #24 - 07/08/11 at 14:22:14
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This page may also be of interest:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/earliest.html

It has entries on "Indian (openings)" and "Nimzo-Indian".
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #23 - 07/08/11 at 13:56:31
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Dear Stefan,

as Tartakower was born in 1888 and you mentioned in the first posting of this thread that "Indian Defences" is a pre-1900 term, he didn't invent it, I guess?! Do you know when was the first detectable usage of that term, and in connection with which opening moves?

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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #22 - 07/08/11 at 12:57:09
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/06/11 at 17:17:46:
Savielly Tartakower's booklet Indisch (Berlin 1924) has the subtitle "Aus der Werkstätte einer Eröffnung" [from an opening's workshop (laboratory?)]. Instead of giving theory as the established result of masters' practice, Tartakower's approach was different. He presented the "Indian Defences" (in fact a pre-1900 term, but rarely used) as something fresh and still under construction. Tartakower frankly admitted that the codification of the Indian Systems was incomplete and invented new names on the flight. The small book was like an invitation to look an opening theoretician over the shoulder, watching him at work. 

According to the last sentence of the work, Indisch was a "Baedeker [a travel-guide] for explorers of India". It will be the main task of this thread to document changes in the nomenclature of the Indian Systems, through decades and languages. There will be months when I post nothing, but when I see an interesting name (like "Ur-Indisch" in Hypermoderne Schachpartie), I'll write an entry here, giving source and author. 

Members are invited to contribute early sightings of names of various Indian Defences in chess literature. For example, which was the oldest source where "Grünfeld's Defence" was converted into "Grünfeld Indian"?  

Names of Indian openings are the main topic here, but other opening names may be debated, too. Many openings have more than one name (1.Nc3 has ten, at least). If you want to rename the Muzio Gambit in Polerio Gambit, fine. But I can live just as well with a line named after a kibitzer. Whether a name is accepted or not, only time can tell, and I don't see it as my task to decide which is the "right" one.


In my library I have many of the great tournament books from the period between the wars. One of the most interesting is that of Teplitz-Schoenau 1922, published in 1923. It contains a 26-page survey of the openings by Gruenfeld and Becker. All the 1 d4 Nf6 openings are classified merely as Damenbauereroeffnung except for, guess what - Gruenfeld Verteidigung!

Alekhine wrote an opening survey for New York 1924. There he mentions the "Gruenfeld defence" but does not seem to distinguish between the other "Indian defences".

Then next tournament book with any extensive opening survey is that of Kecskemet 1927 by Alekhine, Kmoch, Maroczy and Nimzowitsch. There we find:
damenidische (this includes some Nimzo lines)
koenigsindische
halbindische (this also includes some Nimzo lines)
Vollindishe (double fianchetto)

In the book of Bad Kissingen 1928, Tartakower uses the terms:
Ost-Indisch (2..g6)
West-Indische (1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 b6)
Neu-Indisch (2...e6)
Bogoljubowsche Variante (3...Bb4+)
Nimzowitsch Variante (3 Nc3 Bb4)

Confusingly there is also mention of Altindisch (apparently ...g6 set-ups) and Neu-Indisch (...e6 set-ups)!

In the Karlsbad 1929 book the terminology is the familiar confusion.

Yet by the time we reach Bled 1931, compiled by Hans Mueller, the terminology of the openings index has become recognizably "modern":
Nimzo-Indisch
Damenindisch
Koenigsindisch

Perhaps someone can access the whole series of "Modern Chess Openings" in one of the major chess libraries to help pin down the turning point when the terminology began to stabilise into the current usage.



  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #21 - 07/08/11 at 12:47:05
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My guess is Leningrad has the most openings named after it.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #20 - 07/08/11 at 12:13:45
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The Collijns are still correct, even today it's called Preussiskt (and perhaps Tvåspringarspel as well, no one says Dubbelspringarspel nowadays). 
Since there are always four knights on the board from the start, it seems both silly and unimaginative to name variations 2,3,4-Knights though...

Considering the many variations from Berlin, Vienna, Leningrad, Moscow etc - which city in the world has the most variations named after it?

Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/08/11 at 09:15:52:
Markovich wrote on 07/06/11 at 11:03:11:
Names of openings are interesting. I know that at one time, the Two Knights Defense was called the Prussian Defense.

The latter name was introduced in Collijn: Laerobok i schack, 2nd ed. 1903: "Preussiskt parti eller Dubbelspringarspel" (in the 1st ed. only "Dubbelspringarspel"). It was adopted by Cordel and is still in use as a shorter alternative in Germany (e.g. in Kaissiber). Collijn wrote: "Denna spelöppning har först analyserats af Berlinerspelare på 1840-talet." 

The system has older roots, but P. R. von Bilguer's book Das Zweispringerspiel im Nachzuge 1839 was the first opening monography and impressed with fine analysis. So the name stuck. Jaenisch only quoted the book's title, didn't translate the clumsy name (1843). Staunton (Handbook 1847) cut it down to "Two Knights' Game". A bit illogical (three knights are developed), but who cares if you know what is meant? 

Bilguer's longer term looks pedantic, hinting at the two knights developed by Black. Perhaps he wanted to avoid confusion with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6, called "Two Kings' Knights' Game" as late as in Jaenisch 1847. - By the way, is it wrong to write "Two King's Knights' Game" instead? Each of those knights has only one king!

  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #19 - 07/08/11 at 09:15:52
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Markovich wrote on 07/06/11 at 11:03:11:
Names of openings are interesting. I know that at one time, the Two Knights Defense was called the Prussian Defense.

The latter name was introduced in Collijn: Laerobok i schack, 2nd ed. 1903: "Preussiskt parti eller Dubbelspringarspel" (in the 1st ed. only "Dubbelspringarspel"). It was adopted by Cordel and is still in use as a shorter alternative in Germany (e.g. in Kaissiber). Collijn wrote: "Denna spelöppning har först analyserats af Berlinerspelare på 1840-talet." 

The system has older roots, but P. R. von Bilguer's book Das Zweispringerspiel im Nachzuge 1839 was the first opening monography and impressed with fine analysis. So the name stuck. Jaenisch only quoted the book's title, didn't translate the clumsy name (1843). Staunton (Handbook 1847) cut it down to "Two Knights' Game". A bit illogical (three knights are developed), but who cares if you know what is meant? 

Bilguer's longer term looks pedantic, hinting at the two knights developed by Black. Perhaps he wanted to avoid confusion with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6, called "Two Kings' Knights' Game" as late as in Jaenisch 1847. - By the way, is it wrong to write "Two King's Knights' Game" instead? Each of those knights has only one king!
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #18 - 07/08/11 at 01:02:21
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Thanks, S_F.  Smiley
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #17 - 07/07/11 at 23:20:18
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The last 9 Posts were moved here from General Chess [move by] Smyslov_Fan.
  
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #16 - 07/06/11 at 11:29:40
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Yes, and following Avrukh, we have a Leningrad- and a St Petersburg-Variation in the Dutch. Sadly, in the 1920ies the Russians were more interested in fighting White vs. Red instead of White vs. Black, else we might have also a "Petrograd-Variation".  Cry
  

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