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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle (Read 107543 times)
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #60 - 07/11/11 at 13:37:21
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Fianchetto is an ancient term, dating back to the days when the Italians and Spanish dominated the game.  That there is a term for developing on the flank doesn't mean that the strategies associated with the KID were understood.

Stefan, thank you for those fascinating references! 

Btw, Parti/Partie/Partia just means "game". I'm guessing most of the people here know that, but monoglot English speakers may not be aware of this.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #59 - 07/11/11 at 13:31:26
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King's Fianchetto and Queen's Fianchetto were accepted as openings relatively early. The expression "Fianchetto of the Indian players" indicates that the writer recognizes differences between the Indian treatment and the Fianchettoes in games from English players, e.g. Blackburne or Owen. Nf6 is played early, to provoke the set-up c4 and Nc3. Moheschunder castles and then attacks White's broad center by means of d6 and e5. Today we know subtler Indian Defences, but one cannot deny that this is a clear, straightforward plan, different from other "Fianchettoes". This alone justifies to classify it as a new opening... The only surprise is that the process took so long. 

One problem was the low quality of the Calcutta games. Editors of chess magazines are sceptical when they receive thick collections of games, the majority played as skittles (20-25 minutes per game, as sometimes is mentioned). When he returned to England 1869 as a retiree, Cochrane usually played very fast games during his daily visits of the chess club. Hundreds of games against Löwenthal... 

After the first occurence of the term "Indian Defence" in 1884 (details see above), not much later it appears in another source: 

Carlo Salvioli: Teoria e pratica del giuoco degli scacchi (vol. 1), 1885, p. 112. The Italian author comments Black's move 1.e4 d6 as follows: 

Quote:
Questa difesa non e da raccomandarsi perchè lascia troppo terreno al primo giuocatoro. Però sia detto una volta per sempre, questi sistemi bizzarri d'attacco e di difesa sono da biasimarsi sino ad un certo punto. Se il giuocatore vi si è esercitato, se egli vi si trova bene, e crede che l'avversario non vi abbia troppa famigliarità, egli può benissimo tentarli, giacchè gli svantaggi che derivano da questo aperture non sono assolutamente allarmanti, e possono venire facilmente compensati ad ogni colpo meno giusto che venga giuocato dall'avversario.
La spinga del PD un passo, si lega necessariamente al Fianchetto di Re, altrimenti non avrebbe assolutamente alcuno scopo e sarebbe doppiamente condannabile perchè l'AR resterebbe chiuso per molto tempo. Fu detta da taluno la Difesa Indiana perche tentata molto volte dal bramino Moheschunder il più forte giuocatore dell'India, contro il celebre Cochrane.


The Google translation is not perfect, but sufficient (native speakers, please point out the howlers):

Quote:
This defense is not to recommend because it leaves too much ground to the first player. But let it be said once for all, this bizarre system of attack and defense is to be blamed to a certain point. If the player practiced there, and if he is good, and believes that the opponent does not have too much familiarity, he may very well try it, since the disadvantages resulting from this opening are not very alarming, and can be easily compensated every shot is not right that staked by the opponent.
The push of one PD step, binds to the necessity of King fianchetto, otherwise it would have absolutely no purpose and would be doubly reprehensible because the King's bishop would remain closed for a long time. It was called by some Indian Defense because very often tried by the strongest player of India Brahmin Moheschunder, against the renowned Cochrane.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #58 - 07/11/11 at 08:49:37
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The Indian player seems very partial to this combination of the Philidor and King's Fianchetto.


That there already was an accepted term like "fianchetto" could suggest an even older beginning of the KID. Why bother having a special word for that bishop development if no one ever used it?
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #57 - 07/11/11 at 01:54:41
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A good move, breaking up White s centre.

I like this comment. It shows that the hypermoderns were not the first to understand how to deal with a broad centre.
  

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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #56 - 07/10/11 at 23:51:34
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Only few KI games by Moheschunder found their way into the magazines, in various years and sometimes in other countries. It was impossible for leading experts like Steinitz to see the merits of Moheschunder's play. Staunton had published a game with Nf6, g6, e6. This was in stark contrast to Steinitz' ideas about weaknesses. 

On the other side, there was Louis Paulsen who played the KI successfully in 1879 in three match games against A. Schwarz. So if Edward Winter were right and the first mention of "Indian Defence" had indeed happened only in 1884, wouldn't Louis Paulsen deserve praise at least for developing the KI independently, without knowing (much) about Moheschunder? 

In my opinion, however, the public breakthrough for the "Indian Defence" came a few years earlier, and it is well possible that Paulsen was inspired by the following game, commented by Steinitz/Potter in The City of London Chess Magazine 1875, pp. 39-40, to study the system in more depth himself. (The last moves of the game and the comment contain some errors; I am focusing on the opening.)



For Steinitz/Potter it was still an "Irregular Opening", but the influence of their annotations is felt in The Chess Player's Chronicle 1884, p. 172. A game Fernandez - Cowan, "played at Mexico, 22nd February 1884", originally annotated in The Times-Democrat, is reprinted, with all the annotations. It will suffice to give the first moves: 

1.e4 d6 2.d4 g6. "An example of the rare Indian Defence, so called on account of its introduction by the celebrated Indian Chess Player, the Brahmin Moheschunder Bonnerjee, in his games against Cochrane. Mr. Potter considers it as good a defence as any other." 3.Bc4 e6. "Both Steinitz and Potter teach that it is against sound principles to advance the KP in conjunction with the King's Fianchetto, at least in the early stages of the game, or until it can go to K4 at once. It does seem to weaken Black's position." 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Nbd2. "We would prefer this Kt at c3. The best move here, however, we conceive to be 5.Bg5 when, if 5...Bg7, White appears to us to gain a clear advantage in the development, by 6.Qe2." 5...Bg7 6.0-0 d5 ... drawn (28).

So the first occurence of the term "Indian Defence" in 1884 (as documented by Edward Winter, see link above) seems to be strongly influenced by the positive comments in 1875 by Steinitz and Potter. 

A last remark on the 1884 source: In the sentence "Mr. Potter considers it as good a defence as any other", this "it" refers to the "Indian Defence" in the foregoing sentence. Cook/Miller: Synopsis of Chess Openings (1881), p. 126, titled "Fianchetto Defense", comments on another Cochrane - Moheschunder game after 1.e4 g6 2.d4 d6: "This constitutes the Fianchetto of the Indian players. Mr. Potter says it is probably as good as any other close defense." 

The original source of the last quote is probably The City of London Chess Magazine 1875, p.231. - W. N. Potter comments here on Cochrane - Moheschunder ("one of several unpublished games which Mr. Cochrane has been good enough to place at our disposal") on 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bd3 g6: "The Indian player seems very partial to this combination of the Philidor and King's Fianchetto. It is probably as good as any other defence of the close description." (The game in Cook/Miller is the same, the authors only manipulated the first moves, to make it fit for their Fianchetto section.)
« Last Edit: 07/11/11 at 12:57:15 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #55 - 07/10/11 at 22:02:08
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So if the term "Indian Opening" is introduced in 1864 (see my last post), why does "Indian Defence" have to wait until 1884 (the first occurence identified by Edward Winter; link above)? When we look in the ChessBase database, we find 68 games classified as "King's Indian" played 1851-1855 between Cochrane and Moheschunder. Mainly E76 (Four Pawns Attack), but also E90 and E70. In these 68 games, Moheschunder (as Black) scored 43%. Not too bad: in 465 games with Cochrane the Brahmin's overall score was much lower, only 25%. 

Only few of these many games were published in the 19th century, even rarer an "Indian Defence" in our terminology. Cochrane collected these games played in Calcutta in a manuscript which he hoped to publish. The book never became reality. Today his manuscript is one of the chess treasures of the Cleveland Public Library (White Collection), available on microfilm. It seems that the games were added only a few years ago ("EXT 2006"; "EXT 2007") to the ChessBase database. - To be really sure that the games are authentic, I should travel to Cleveland, or get the microfilm. But for the purpose of this thread, let's just assume that the games in the database are the real thing. 

Well, I have some reservations: the occasional mouse slip in the last moves of a game. Games without a single move, but 1-0. Arrived Moheschunder too late to the game? Too much traffic in Calcutta, a street blockaded by a holy cow? Or was there some coffee spilled over one page, so that deciphering the moves was impossible, but the collaborator of ChessBase at least gave the result? - Anyway, these are questions which aren't important for my observations here. We can be quite sure that Moheschunder played a relatively sound King's Indian, and that Cochrane, in 1841 just as strong as Staunton, had problems to defeat the Brahmin's unusual defence. We can also observe a change in attitude. In the first report 1850 Moheschunder's uneducated play was mocked. In 1856 Cochrane (Black) played "KI" himself: 1.d4 Nf6 2.g3 d6 3.Bg2 g6 4.e4 Bg7 5.Ne2 c6 6.c4 Nbd7 7.0-0 e5.  

Why was Moheschunder's play not taken more seriously in the 1850ies and 1860ies? Cochrane won the majority of the games he sent. So how strong could this Moheschunder really be? The remarks in magazines make clear that only few of the many games sent by Cochrane were actually published. Staunton published a letter 1850 in his Chronicle: 

Quote:
[...]The only player here who has any chance whatever with Mr. Cochrane, upon even terms, is a Brahmin of the name of Moheschunder Bonnerjee. Of this worthy, Mr. Cochrane has himself remarked that he possesses as great a natural talent for Chess, as any player he ever met with, without one single exception! [...] Until the early part of last year, Moheschunder had never been twenty miles from his native village in the Mofussil, as the interior of India is designated. He had never played with a really good player, and was scarcely acquainted with all of the European rules of the game.* 

[Footnote: * There are several peculiarities in the rules as observed by the natives of India amongst themselves. The chief are the following:— Only the centre or royal Pawns are allowed the privilege of moving two squares for the first move: Pawn taking Pawn en passant is unknown: and (strangest of all) the King once in the game has the privilege of moving like a Knight! I was astounded once in playing with a native up the country by this antic on the part of his King, who suddenly jumped over the heads of sundry pieces and whipped off my Queen, when I was on the eve of checkmating him. All the Calcutta native players, however, play the European game (...)]. 

From long continued and uninterrupted success, he had become desperately self-sufficient and obstinately addicted to certain faulty styles of opening, of which indeed he is not even now cured. (emphasis mine, S. B.)

The introduction of Moheschunder to Calcutta was on this wise :—A member of the Calcutta Chess Club, during a Mofussil pilgrimage in the autumn of 1848, heard of the fame of this local Philidor, and learning further that the Mofussil Champion had "never been beaten," he rejoiced exceedingly, in the prospect of beating him soundly! This expectation was not destined to be fulfilled; for our Brahmin triumphed. The discomfited club-man thereupon brought him down to Calcutta, and requested Mr. Cochrane to take him in hand. Now Moheschunder had never even heard of Cochrane, nor, for that matter, of Ruy Lopez, Philidor, La Bourdonnais, Macdonncll, or Staunton! At this time, in truth, Moheschunder was under a very strong impression that some Mookerjee or Chatterjee, resident in the district of Berhampore, or Burdwan, was incomparably the best player in the known world next to himself. It was not until he had been well beaten six games or so off hand, that the idea began to dawn upon him that he might possibly be mistaken; and at last he solemnly pronounced his successful opponent to be "Shejtan" himself and no other!

Since that period, Moheschunder has been appointed a paid attache of the Calcutta Chess Club. He is much improved, and frequently wins of Mr. Cochrane, playing on even terms. His "sight" of the board is extraordinary: he plays with marvellous rapidity, and rarely makes an oversight or mistake. I fancy his age must now be fifty or more—so that he is "no chicken," but rather a tough old thingy to be taught new modes of using his spurs. With proper teaching in early life, and the advantage of practice with superior players, it is difficult to say to what strength he might not have attained.

I am, Sir, yours faithfully, A Member Of The Calcutta Chess Club. Calcutta, August 1st, 1850.


In the next issue of the Chronicle, Staunton published merely four games. His comment on 1.d4 Nf6 in the first game speaks volumes - it would be understandable if Cochrane had sent him no further 1.d4 Nf6 samples (of course we cannot be sure): 

Quote:
CHESS IN INDIA.

The following games are a small instalment of those obligingly communicated by our Correspondent, "a Member of the Calcutta Chess Club," whose interesting letter appeared in the last Number. 

Irregular Opening. [...] Cochrane - Moheschunder ("a Native player of high respute"). 1.d4 Nf6. "In playing over these games it must be borne in mind that the Native is comparatively unstudied in the European openings, and has probably never read a single work upon the game in his life." 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e3 Bb4 ... 1-0 (18)

Centre Game. Cochrane - Moheschunder 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Be3 Qe7 ... 1-0 (17).

King's Knight's Opening. Cochrane - Moheschunder 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8 ... 0-1, 39. Staunton' comment to move 22: "The Brahmin plays the remainder of this game with great tact and ingenuity." 

Irregular Opening. Cochrane - Moheschunder 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 ... 1-0, 25.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #54 - 07/10/11 at 21:07:09
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In some older Dutch sources you can find names like "Pruisische Partij" as well. These days it's uncommon.
  

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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #53 - 07/10/11 at 20:47:56
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Earlier in this thread the term "Preussische Verteidigung" for "Two Knights' Game" was discussed. I forgot to mention that in France and England such a term was already fairly established, but for a different system: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nf6 was called "Prussian Defence" in some sources, after the Prussian theoretician Hermann von Hanneken (1810-1886). Authors usually try to avoid such confusion, so another "Prussian Defence" had no chance. Google only tells me that Lasker's Manual (1960 edition) had "Prussian Opening" for the Two Knights.


In Swedish it's Preussiskt parti which doesn't really convey if it's a "white opening" or a "black defence". Parti seems only to be used for a few select Open Games (Wienerparti is an other example). I've assumed it comes from german (Bilguer?) but since you didn't mention it along with Preussiche - does it come from somewhere else?
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #52 - 07/10/11 at 19:02:34
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I woulda thought 1.e4 b6 would also be considered an Indian Opening, but Alekhin called it a "Queen's Fianchetto".
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #51 - 07/10/11 at 18:47:26
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The "Indian Opening" (1.e4 e5 2.d3) seems to belong to a different class of openings, unrelated to the family of Indian defences. At least for modern eyes. If we look closer, we find that Moheschunder liked to play a King's Indian (in our terminology) with e7-e5. It isn't illogical to spend the "extra" move on e2-e4 and then develop in the manner you are accustomed to. Basically the idea of the King's Indian Attack - but the move-order 1.e4 allows more concrete counter-play. 1.e4 e5 2.d3 was later used by Hanham and would in a modern classification rather appear as a Reversed Philidor/Hanham System. - Since we are mainly interested in 1.d4 Nf6 here, I'll keep the following overview short. 

The origin of the term "Indian Opening" is easier to research than "Indian Defence". Mordecai Morgan's The Chess Digest (1903), vol. 3, pp.514-515 gives 12 entries for "Indian Opening", as this double page is titled. 

The oldest entry is a game "Herr Förster - Herr Kaplan J. G. Dragatin", Schachzeitung 1859, p. 167. The game was played in alpine landscape, 6.000 feet high. - The moves: 1.e7-e5 [Black moved first] e2-e4 2.d7-d6 d2-d4 3.f7-f6... The game appears in SZ under the opening heading "Naturspiel"

The second oldest game is Green - Paulsen, London 1862. It had already been identified by Edward Winter in http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/earliest.html as the earliest occurence of the term "Indian Opening" (thanks for the link, Linksspringer!). Löwenthal commented on 2.d3 in the tournament book (which appeared 1864): "Our efforts to trace this move to its inventor, by examining the various works treating upon the principles of the openings, have been fruitless. We find no mention made of it by either ancient or modern writers. Mr Green, however, informs us that this opening is common among the native players in Hindostan. We propose, therefore, to name it 'the Indian Opening'." (emphasis mine, S.B.). - In 1860 Green had played in India, against Moheschunder and others. 

1.e4 e5 2.d3 was never popular. In games between Moheschunder and Cochrane (465 games in the ChessBase database!) I find only twelve games in a different version 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d3. Even then the move-order 1.Nf3 /g3/Bg2/d3/0-0/e4 was preferred. But the tournament book London 1862 was important - the name wasn't forgotten. At least not until 1903. I could list perhaps ten games which appeared under "Indian Opening". 

I'll write a separate post on the pre-1900 "Indian Defence".
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #50 - 07/10/11 at 14:25:57
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Uhohspaghettio wrote on 07/10/11 at 13:55:48:
There is also something called the "Irish Opening" given in the ECO but it's really a bit of a joke.

Do you mean the "Irish Gambit" 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nxe5 ? It is in the Oxford Companion, a longer article was in NMOB 4 (1993). Hugh Myers preferred "Chicago Gambit", based on a letter written in 1883. But Kais. #20 (2005) published a game by Franz Tendering, who died 1875. So do me the favour and forget any priority rights for the Irish. 

Tendering was in contact with Göring, one of the most likely candidates as inventors of the Halloween Gambit. Maybe Tendering's idea (later jokingly called "Gambit Müller") inspired Göring to create the (better!) Halloween Gambit. Or it was the other way around, which would have been a steep decline. 
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #49 - 07/10/11 at 13:55:48
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There is also something called the "Irish Opening" given in the ECO but it's really a bit of a joke.

Sometimes I wonder about how these names come into existence and who says or why they get well known. For example at chess.com someone "invented" an opening called the "Bongcloud Attack" as a joke and people ended up thinking the name was legitimate (if not the opening Wink).
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #48 - 07/10/11 at 13:27:13
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tracke wrote on 07/10/11 at 12:15:36:
From long ago I also remember the term 
Mittel-Indisch for both 2...d6 and 2...e6.
Will try to find a source ...

tracke  Smiley

That's surprising. It fits together neither with Tartakower's nor with newer terminology. Would be interesting...

I intend to post today on the pre-1900, early occurences of the terms "Indian Opening" and "Indian Defence". Next I'll look at Tartakower's new terminology, based on his works Indisch (1924), Die Hypermoderne Schachpartie (1925) and Das entfesselte Schach (1926). A third post (probably not today) will cover foreign reactions on T.'s new names. Nobody loved "Dreiviertelindisch", it seems.

Earlier in this thread the term "Preussische Verteidigung" for "Two Knights' Game" was discussed. I forgot to mention that in France and England such a term was already fairly established, but for a different system: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nf6 was called "Prussian Defence" in some sources, after the Prussian theoretician Hermann von Hanneken (1810-1886). Authors usually try to avoid such confusion, so another "Prussian Defence" had no chance. Google only tells me that Lasker's Manual (1960 edition) had "Prussian Opening" for the Two Knights.
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #47 - 07/10/11 at 12:15:36
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From long ago I also remember the term 
Mittel-Indisch for both 2...d6 and 2...e6.
Will try to find a source ...

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: Nomenclature of Openings: Indian Jungle
Reply #46 - 07/09/11 at 15:09:24
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/08/11 at 22:37:14:
a bunch of European players analyzed it on the way over to a tournament in New York back in the early 1900's, and it was named after the ship they were on.

Specifically Spielmann and Vidmar who participated in New York 1927 and tried it in the first opening round.
That tournament was played on Manhattan.
  

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