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What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? (Read 48232 times)

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #31 - 07/24/11 at 14:42:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Fllg wrote on 07/24/11 at 14:24:24: If I remember correctly it was Larsen who argued that 3.d4 in the Sicilian might be a positional mistake since he valued a center pawn higher. I do play the open Sicilian sometimes but I don´t believe it to be any better than e.g. the Rossolimo. Larsen was Danish, yes. I don't believe the Open to be necessarily better either, actually. I just don't think that playing the anti-Sicilians to avoid theory is the right argument for a player under about 2200 for avoiding the Open Sicilians.


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #30 - 07/24/11 at 14:30:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes, and 2.a4 basically is a high-class waiting move to reach the Rossolimo. After 2.Nf3 g6, you don't get the Bb5/Nc6 thing.


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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #29 - 07/24/11 at 14:24:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	If I remember correctly it was Larsen who argued that 3.d4 in the Sicilian might be a positional mistake since he valued a center pawn higher. I don´t understand why some think the open Sicilian to be the only challenge to Black and as an e4-player you "have to" play it to become better. Following that logic you have to play the sharpest lines like 6.Bg5 or 6.Be3 vs. the Najdorf as well since more positionell approaches like 6.Be2 also do not challenge Black enough. I do play the open Sicilian sometimes but I don´t believe it to be any better than e.g. the Rossolimo.


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #28 - 07/24/11 at 12:49:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I seem to remember some danish dude saying the same thing. On the other hand, both Fischer and Kasparov kinda liked the open d-file and attacking chances, IIRC. Fischer and Kasparov belong to another generation than the Hypermoderns, so what do they know? Kasparov got some bad positions with Black in Closed Sicilians. However, my sarcasm should have included more self-irony, since the Closed Sicilian 2.Nc3 often feels like reviving Monsieur Philidor: pieces behind the pawns. - There are enough antidotes vs the Open Sicilian which are fine for Black. On the other side, it happens only rarely that Sicilian players invest time into studying, say, 2.a4.


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fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #27 - 07/24/11 at 12:16:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/24/11 at 09:09:41: Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 07/24/11 at 07:49:53: I wonder if anyone has said this before, but I think the best anti-Sicilian is 3. d4 When I played 1. e4 since I started chess to about 2230 ELO (when I switched to 1. d4), I always played the Open Sicilian because it seemed to improve my chess by playing the most principled lines instead of trying to avoid studying and play an anti-Sicilian. The only time I recall playing an anti-Sicilian was as a surprise against an IM; I played the Grand Prix Attack and lost the opening battle. If Black studies the anti-Sicilians well, surely it will be more difficult to play an anti-Sicilian than the Open Sicilian? The problem is, when you play 3.d4, you play chess like Howard Staunton. Hypermoderns like their own d-pawn more than their c-pawn. I seem to remember some danish dude saying the same thing. On the other hand, both Fischer and Kasparov kinda liked the open d-file and attacking chances, IIRC.


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #26 - 07/24/11 at 09:09:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 07/24/11 at 07:49:53: I wonder if anyone has said this before, but I think the best anti-Sicilian is 3. d4 When I played 1. e4 since I started chess to about 2230 ELO (when I switched to 1. d4), I always played the Open Sicilian because it seemed to improve my chess by playing the most principled lines instead of trying to avoid studying and play an anti-Sicilian. The only time I recall playing an anti-Sicilian was as a surprise against an IM; I played the Grand Prix Attack and lost the opening battle. If Black studies the anti-Sicilians well, surely it will be more difficult to play an anti-Sicilian than the Open Sicilian? The problem is, when you play 3.d4, you play chess like Howard Staunton. Hypermoderns like their own d-pawn more than their c-pawn.


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Gilchrist is a legend God Member Offline Posts: 1039 Location: Manchester, UK Joined: 03/02/10	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #25 - 07/24/11 at 07:49:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	I wonder if anyone has said this before, but I think the best anti-Sicilian is 3. d4 When I played 1. e4 since I started chess to about 2230 ELO (when I switched to 1. d4), I always played the Open Sicilian because it seemed to improve my chess by playing the most principled lines instead of trying to avoid studying and play an anti-Sicilian. The only time I recall playing an anti-Sicilian was as a surprise against an IM; I played the Grand Prix Attack and lost the opening battle. If Black studies the anti-Sicilians well, surely it will be more difficult to play an anti-Sicilian than the Open Sicilian?

	Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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glut YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 43 Joined: 11/12/08	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #24 - 07/23/11 at 21:08:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	I switched from life long 1.d4 practice to 1e4 a couple of years back (which blew away a lot of stale cobwebs by the way) and looked at the Closed/GPA as one way to ease in. I was not very satisfied with this and so incorporated a lot of the Taming the Sicilian lines, which are a fairly manageable way into the Open in my view - that's the way I would go from relatively recent experience,


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Jupp53 God Member Offline be Posts: 988 Location: Frankfurt/Main Joined: 01/04/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #23 - 07/23/11 at 13:38:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	MartinC wrote on 07/23/11 at 10:52:30: To emphasise Fling's point really - long term memory just isn't that reliable for stuff you can't rehearse, and its rare to have the chance to do that at club level. Thus its very easy to over state how well prepared folk will be in practice. For a rather convincing example, take our prestigious section editor here. Virtually the only time I've seen him in real trouble vs decent club players was someone playing a 6 Bg5 Nardojf in a congress. Now he's written multiple dense book chapters about this, so very knowledgeable indeed in principle. Did that help? No, he got into awful trouble. You'd guess because he hadn't actually played it for ages and its not easy to play. (and yes he did then somehow win anyway.). Why though would anyone expect a club player to manage hugely better? Obviously it makes a difference if they're playing these lines often, but often they won't be. In my case I've been playing Scheveningen's for several years (mostly via e6/Nc6/d6) now and have accumulated no English attacks, one Sozin and one Keres. And from what I can tell this really isn't at all atypical at UK club level. Of course the theory is often needed just to survive in these positions, so even if you did remember it all its not that crushing vs rational play. One more thing: its fine to use anti sicillians for the odd Sicillian line, or just as a break etc, but I do think that someone who really doesn't like the open Sicillian should at least strongly consider playing 1 d4/Nf3 instead. Its such a common opening vs 1 e4. About memory: Tarrasch recommends in Das Schachspiel at the beginning of the chapter about openings not to try to memorize the lines! Understanding the concepts is important. (You will catch some lines this way.) About open sicilians: I'm a 1.e4 player and I dislike open sicilians for two reasons. - It's really more conceptual work to enter the open sicilians compared to an anti-sicilian repertoire and I don't want to spend much time with openings as long as my tactical and endgame knowledge is beyond FM level (that's probably all my live). - I learn by practising and looking in the books after the games. Open sicilians mean a lot more losses this way.

	Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002. Dum spiro spero. Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #22 - 07/23/11 at 12:16:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the 133 games of my database with 1.e4 c5 2.a4 White scored 57%.


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #21 - 07/23/11 at 10:52:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	To emphasise Fling's point really - long term memory just isn't that reliable for stuff you can't rehearse, and its rare to have the chance to do that at club level. Thus its very easy to over state how well prepared folk will be in practice. For a rather convincing example, take our prestigious section editor here. Virtually the only time I've seen him in real trouble vs decent club players was someone playing a 6 Bg5 Nardojf in a congress. Now he's written multiple dense book chapters about this, so very knowledgeable indeed in principle. Did that help? No, he got into awful trouble. You'd guess because he hadn't actually played it for ages and its not easy to play. (and yes he did then somehow win anyway.). Why though would anyone expect a club player to manage hugely better? Obviously it makes a difference if they're playing these lines often, but often they won't be. In my case I've been playing Scheveningen's for several years (mostly via e6/Nc6/d6) now and have accumulated no English attacks, one Sozin and one Keres. And from what I can tell this really isn't at all atypical at UK club level. Of course the theory is often needed just to survive in these positions, so even if you did remember it all its not that crushing vs rational play. One more thing: its fine to use anti sicillians for the odd Sicillian line, or just as a break etc, but I do think that someone who really doesn't like the open Sicillian should at least strongly consider playing 1 d4/Nf3 instead. Its such a common opening vs 1 e4.


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fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #20 - 07/22/11 at 09:15:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/21/11 at 12:05:01: A combination of main lines and sidelines here, but one thing all these lines have in common is that they are quite easy to play as White and are somewhat thematically linked (e.g. Be3/f4 in the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Taimanov, c4 against the Kan, Accelerated Dragon, Sveshnikov). Ultimately, I would recommend the Open Sicilians over Anti-Sicilians for most people, but you can also learn a lot from studying the Bb5 or Alapin Sicilians. I think this is a good summary of the post. I intend to start playing 1.e4 and this seems like an easy to implement-repertoire. It helps that I have been playing the Kan and am now trying to include Taimanov and Sveshnikov in my repertoire. Also, I have been playing c4 for a while and this means I basically get to play some of the lines from the other side. Also, the Accelerated Dragon is good to play to get an understanding of the typical plans, especially in Maroczy-bind positions. I would like to see a book like the excellent Mastering the Spanish but for Sicilians instead.


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fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #19 - 07/22/11 at 08:45:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Actually, this is what I thought a few years ago. However, even when playing against a guy in my club, rated 2200+ for a long time, I managed to beat him in his favorite Taimanov. Even though this was a blitz game, I didn't know any theory on this. It is mainly about knowing typical plans and just playing chess. Most players under 2000 still 't play their favorite lines not because they are best objectively, but just because they like to play a certain way. It is much easier to win against a stronger opponent if you play good moves, then trying to play something offbeat just to avoid theory. If the open sicilian positions suit you better, play them. You'll learn more when you've played more. As a bonus, it will benefit you in the long run.


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Fromper Senior Member Offline GrandPatzer Posts: 381 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Joined: 03/12/10 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #18 - 07/21/11 at 22:47:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 07/21/11 at 12:05:01: And here is a sample Open Sicilian repertoire for a 1900 player. I've intentionally offered different suggestions to MNb to show that there is more than one way to pick up the Open Sicilian and do well with it. Najdorf: 6.Be3, meeting 6...e5 with 7.Nb3 followed by Qd2, 0-0-0 and f4 and 6...Ng4 with 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 g5 9.Bg3 Bg7 10.Be2. Scheveningen: 6.Be3 followed by Qd2/f3/0-0-0/g4, i.e. the English Attack. You can dodge a lot of theory in the main line with 6...a6 7.Qd2 b5 8.f3 Nbd7 9.g4 h6 10.0-0-0 Bb7 11.h4 b4 12.Nce2 instead of the critical 12.Na4. The reason I recommend the English Attack is because it is very easy to play as White if you understand the key ideas. Dragon: 6.Be3 Bg7 7.Be2 0-0 8.Qd2 followed by 0-0-0. This is a main line Dragon (7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0) without the theory, and it even offers White some chances of an edge. Classical: The 6.Bg5 lines are extremely hard to master with either colour, so I recommend 6.Be3, meeting 6...e5 with 7.Nf3 and 6...Ng4 with 7.Bb5. The former line is just equal but doesn't require any maintenance. The latter line is equal, but only if Black really knows his theory. Taimanov: 6.Be3 followed by 7.f4 almost no matter what Black plays. Almost no theory, and certainly a dangerous weapon with a bit of preparation. Four Knights: 6.Ndb5 Bb4 7.a3 Bc3 8.Nc3 d5 9.ed5 ed5 10.Bd3. Easy to play for Black, but also for White. Paulsen/Kan: 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3. This seems to offer as good a chance of an edge as 5.Nc3 or 5.Bd3. And Black doesn't have anywhere near as many options as after 5.Bd3. Pin Variation: 6.e5 followed by 7.Qg4. If you study this properly for a few hours you will never have to look at the line again. Accelerated Dragon: Maroczy Bind with Nc2. White has good chances of emerging with a slight edge and his plans are pretty clear-cut. If Black tries to avoid Nc2 with 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 Nd4 7.Qd4 d6 then 8.Bg5 Bg7 9.Qd2 0-0 10.Bd3 is slightly better for White. Sveshnikov: 9.Nd5 Be7 10.Bf6 Bf6 11.c4. Easy to learn and play, while still giving White some chances for an advantage. Grivas Sicilian: I like 7.a3 more than any other line for White. Kalashnikov: Play 6.N1c3 a6 7.Na3 b5 8.Nd5 and 9.c4, but without taking on b5. Meet ...Nxd5 with cxd5. Lowenthal: 8.Qc7 is a crafty move that deprives Black of much of his typical counterplay. A combination of main lines and sidelines here, but one thing all these lines have in common is that they are quite easy to play as White and are somewhat thematically linked (e.g. Be3/f4 in the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Taimanov, c4 against the Kan, Accelerated Dragon, Sveshnikov). Ultimately, I would recommend the Open Sicilians over Anti-Sicilians for most people, but you can also learn a lot from studying the Bb5 or Alapin Sicilians. And this post is a perfect example why I don't play the Open Sicilian. Even with MNb's insistence that learning sidelines for each variation is easier than mainlines, you've still got 13 named variations listed in this post. I couldn't tell you what is the Lowenthal or Kalashnikov variation, let alone what my choice of lines against them are. I'm thinking just learning the names of all the Open Sicilian variations would take me almost as long as learning to play one of the "easier" anti-Sicilians. At lower levels, it doesn't matter as much. But as a 1700 routinely facing 1900+ competition, many of my opponents have been playing the same pet line of the Open Sicilian for years, so they know what they're doing. Against the lower rateds, I can probably make it up as I go, but I actually came very close to disaster that way about a month ago when I tried out the Open against a 1300 just to see what would happen.

	GrandPatzer!!! 1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: What do you think is the Best Antisicilian? Reply #17 - 07/21/11 at 15:12:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	maybe I should pin this topic as this question seems to come up a fair amount and some good answers have been placed here.


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