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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The best defense against 1.d4! (Read 29270 times)
Daniel
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #43 - 07/26/11 at 11:21:21
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15. Qc2 is a good try for an advantage (17... cd 18. ed is more pleasant for white). Anka didn't look at it that deeply. 

Miroshnichenko's 19...f5 looks positionally dubious (19. Qc2 seems more promising than Qf4 at first glance) but he only lost as he blundered in the endgame (30... Rdxf2?? when 30... Kg8 was the only move and equal).
  
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #42 - 07/26/11 at 02:56:43
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The author of that article (Emil Anka) thought Nakamura was clearly worse by move 22.  In the annotations he gave 17 or 18...cd followed (in the case of a piece recapture on d4) by ...Nc5 and ...a5 as leading to "=" (I'm distilling a bit here), but in the text part of the article he said he still liked the line for White.  He attributed 15. Qc2 to Chekhov.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #41 - 07/26/11 at 00:48:27
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Well, Frank Marshall played it first in 1912. 

I didn't mean that Ponomariov had come up with the novelty, but that 15.Qc2 seems to be the new way to play for an advantage. I should have been more clear.

I'd be curious to see these equalising paths for Black.

Btw, I found the Topalov-Naka game, but it took me a while. I don't know why it didn't show up in my previous searches.

Still, it looks like white retains a small advantage even in the Topalov-Naka game. The question is whether it was enough to bother trying for more. Ponomariov seemed to think it is.
  
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #40 - 07/25/11 at 22:35:27
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15. Qc2 was known at least from Topalov-Nakamura, Khanty-Mansiysk ol 2010; an article in YB 98 (about three months before Ponomariov-Miroshnichenko) suggested that Black has a couple of ways to equalize, but Miroshnichenko played differently.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #39 - 07/25/11 at 21:27:23
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Here's one way to play for an advantage:



The new move is 15.Qc2. Before that, they followed Topalov-Anand (World Championship, 2010) where Topalov played the "normal" 15.Be4.
  
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MNb
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #38 - 07/25/11 at 20:27:45
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Well, as soon as Black plays ...dxc4 I allow ...b7-b5 by playing e2-e4. But that's not QGD you'll say.
My reply is that there are not that much fun sac lines after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 and 2...d5 3.exd5 exf4 4.Nf3 Nf6 either.
The elementary question remains though: how to play for a win especially against the Lasker?
The pawn structure being asymmetrical this might be less difficult to answer than against the Petrov.
  

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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #37 - 07/25/11 at 17:57:36
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There's also a game that Ponomariov won fairly recently against Ne4. There's still hope for a White advantage in the QGD. But it really is getting harder and harder. Especially at the top levels and in correspondence chess.   

Where are the fun QGD lines where we can sac material to reach positions that the engines just don't understand, as in the King's Gambit lines?  I don't mean for OTB chess, but for correspondence chess. 

(I used to believe the King's Gambit was only good for blitz and an occasional surprise in OTB tournaments. But now, thanks to the really high quality posts on this site, I've become a believer.)
  
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #36 - 07/25/11 at 17:19:17
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MNb wrote on 07/25/11 at 16:32:48:
Unbalanced equality is good enough for me.


Ultimately, that's all you can really ask for.  Maybe unbalanced approximate equality is better.  Actually I think mathematically proving an advantage often reaches positions where white is theoretically better but can't make progress.

Much of the complaints about the Lasker's Defence is that it is impossible to even get that at the moment, but I certainly enjoyed Aronian proving that's it's not so easy.  Recently Harikrishna has made a couple of draws with the Lasker in 20 and 13 moves without getting out of theory at all.
  
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MNb
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #35 - 07/25/11 at 16:32:48
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MNb wrote on 07/25/11 at 10:17:44:
That's my impression too, despite seriously lacking theoretical knowledge.
Besides the Catalan there is also the Exchange Variation.
The weird thing is that I played the latter twice and ended up drawing slightly inferior positions. Then I tried 4.Bg5 twice too and won. So maybe all hope is not lost for us amateurs.
Anyhow, an idea that intrigues me is 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.Rc1 evt. developing the Knight to e2.


huibui wrote on 07/25/11 at 14:03:12:
Unfortunately both the exchange variation and the lines that postpone the development of the Ng1 can be avoided by the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 move order.

3.Nc3 is possible of course, but the Nimzo seems to be in good shape at the moment (see Dortmund).

I play 3.Nc3 and after Bb4 4.e3. Sure Black is in good shape, but there is a lot of play left. I've won a few games already in corr.chess. The theory buffs can consult Vigorito's book on 4.Qc2.
I'm not trying to prove a theoretical += in all lines. 1.e4 c5 is already equal too, but it's not the reason I switched to 1.d4. Unbalanced equality is good enough for me.
  

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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #34 - 07/25/11 at 14:36:26
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Even if Aronian's new idea turns out to give White an edge against the Lasker, there's still the question of how to gain an edge against the Ragozin or Semi-Slav.
  

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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #33 - 07/25/11 at 14:03:12
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MNb wrote on 07/25/11 at 10:17:44:
That's my impression too, despite seriously lacking theoretical knowledge.
Besides the Catalan there is also the Exchange Variation.
The weird thing is that I played the latter twice and ended up drawing slightly inferior positions. Then I tried 4.Bg5 twice too and won. So maybe all hope is not lost for us amateurs.
Anyhow, an idea that intrigues me is 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.Rc1 evt. developing the Knight to e2.



Unfortunately both the exchange variation and the lines that postpone the development of the Ng1 can be avoided by the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 move order.

3.Nc3 is possible of course, but the Nimzo seems to be in good shape at the moment (see Dortmund).
  

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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #32 - 07/25/11 at 10:56:48
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Very recently Aronian tried a g4/h4 line against the Lasker that looks interesting at first sight. So the final word on the Lasker certainly hasn't been said yet. Wink
  

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MNb
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #31 - 07/25/11 at 10:17:44
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That's my impression too, despite seriously lacking theoretical knowledge.
Besides the Catalan there is also the Exchange Variation.
The weird thing is that I played the latter twice and ended up drawing slightly inferior positions. Then I tried 4.Bg5 twice too and won. So maybe all hope is not lost for us amateurs.
Anyhow, an idea that intrigues me is 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.Rc1 evt. developing the Knight to e2.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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fling
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #30 - 07/25/11 at 09:46:08
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BPaulsen wrote on 07/25/11 at 01:15:52:
fling wrote on 07/24/11 at 12:10:18:
I have to agree that the slow Slav is annoying, but I am not sure all White players will play this, since it is not too exciting.

Does anyone have a suggested line against the Slow Slav that is not in Vigus' book?


The main line Slav is hardly exciting, either (well, unless black plays the Morozevich Slav, but that's black's decision - not white's). If white's going to get a position that is just "pleasant" (that's all he gets in the Sokolov Slav, too) then he might as well just use the easier method and dedicate his time and resources to finding innovations elsewhere.


Might be true.
  
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Re: The best defense against 1.d4!
Reply #29 - 07/25/11 at 02:08:50
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Markovich wrote on 07/25/11 at 01:29:59:
I think it's a temporary lull in the development of QGD theory for White. Some new ideas will eventually emerge. Either that or chess theory is closing in a big way.


I honestly feel that's what chess theory is approaching in the QGD. Black can choose equalizing lines analyzed out to the endgame in both the Lasker and 5. Bf4 0-0 6. e3 Nbd7 variations, and white's alternatives are sorely lacking.

From a practical perspective I think the Bxf6 lines (instead of Lasker/Tartakower) are a good try, but even the line you mention with 0-0-0 and pawn storming the kingside is easily defanged (perilously so - once white's pawn storm is stopped - and it can be - black's begins).

White needs something major, otherwise all that's really left is the Catalan.

I hope I'm wrong.
  

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